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Great to discover another example of pre-pro parts ending up being used in a production run

nickjones wrote:

matchboxkiwi wrote:So would this mean that the one shown in the book about making Matchbox toys that Lesney produced years ago was a smooth barrel ?

Cheers, Steve
Matchboxkiwi

Hi Steve, The only Matchbox toy book published by Lesney that I know of would be Mike and the modelmakers which is all drawings ?,

Nick,

Mike and the Modelmakers will be the one Steve means, as the 21d is featured in the book you will recall. The drawing on page 32 showing all the component parts of the 21d does indeed depict a smooth barrel! Given the attention to detail given to other features of the casting in this drawing makes me think Steve might be onto something...

Cheers,
Gavin

Thanks you Jason, Greg, Nick, Steve, Kwakers, Dan Steve, Mick and Gavin for comments.
I hope I can address each of your comments.

As some members will have noticed there have been a number of threads from me with the 21d Foden story. M.J Stannard has 4 listed, Houghton 5, the USA catalogues similar numbers and Nicks has 6. Some years ago I spotted a model that indicated a gap/holes in all catalogues variation listings. My own (still incomplete) listing has 14 variations and I think this smooth barrel I can now put in as my first model whether pre-pro or code 1 is still to be determined.

Steve and Gavin, yes you are correct.
It was actually the Mike and the model Maker book that stirred the interest many years ago with this model, was a great baby sitting book for one nephew. I had intended to add a pic of that reference if anyone was interested. I associated the artwork similar to the artwork on the early 21d E box and decided then that the artist drawings in the book and boxes may/must have been based on a smooth barrel model.
I believe what looks like a rib line on the E box drawing and other pics is just an effect to indicate light/shadow and curves. I use a similar effect in some of my hand drawings with my work. The F box is quite different. 21d was also shown in pocket catalogue pics of 1968 page 13 (see attached) which even a true orange one was depicted as a new model. Dan would be familiar with that because I think he painted one in similar colour scheme. Further evidence came when I was sent a copy of a Fred Bronner catalogue in the 80’s that featured a grey barrel 21d. It was a matter of trying to piece together how all these different models were linked.

My personal thoughts are that a small batch of smooth barrels in grey, orange and yellow were made. Some made it onto engineers models, possibly some onto pre-pro and some left over that were fitted to production models, but how many I do not know.

You will notice that the engineer models have clear windows as shown in catalogues depiction and on early box but on F box it clearly shows rib lines and tinted windows. I know these are drawings but I believe based on actual models.

I think I am closer to sending Kwakers and Nick a detailed listing with the variation table jumping from 6 to about 15.
Kwakers sent me some written details of what he has and I am working through those to compare. Confirmation of variations will be easy as I know some unlisted models have also come up with other members.

Note to Kwakers. Sorry no update yet, I am still waiting on some info that should please you, but I will add something new in the meantime to crimped pin or hopper brace thread perhaps sometime mid week that explains a bit more.

It has become quite a fleet and perhaps a grandchild sometime in the future will have some fun ( away from an ipad with any luck!!)

matchbox_n_molars wrote:Interesting and fun! I didn't even know this smooth barrel variation even existed until now. It sounds as if that one found its way to a home where it will be genuinely appreciated for the rarity it is! What is the story behind you acquiring the model? That must have been a fun moment of discovery.

Greg
I read a line from Reg (fixer) recently where he said something to the effect some people may not know what they have and I had a little chuckle...or we just can't find them in our homes.

I liken the fun part as to when Antonin said he found his no tow guide 20c taxi in amongst his spares.
I have had this for many years, catalogued the details then put it away (safely-too safely). I had the written detail handy in a log book, but just could not find the toy in the house to be able share without photo. I often bought many models and duplicates as presents for nieces and nephews of whom I have many. To be honest I thought we had given it away by mistake but didn’t think it was wise to start going through my other siblings kids toy boxes.
Yes, you are right about appreciating the rarity factor, partly because my love of these toys is usually about intricate metal casting on the early models and not plastics. For this to survive is important for documenting a model.
I think my best online find though was the crimped barrel pin second casting and it soon got Kwakers hooked as well.

And it is not over yet……just gets better

Here is a pic from 1968 pocket catalogue showing artist impression with two coloured and one line drawing of smooth barrel.

Here is an interesting addition to a Foden collection.
I do not know anything about it but thought it needed somewhere to park, so here it is.

Ghosty.

GHOSTHUNTER wrote:Here is an interesting addition to a Foden collection.

#21 Foden Concrete mixer.jpg

I do not know anything about it but thought it needed somewhere to park, so here it is.

Ghosty.

Which Monopoly set did you find that in Ghosty??

Taniwha wrote:Mike and the Modelmakers...

I never, ever liked that book, primarily because of the pictures. (The only book I know which has even more awful illustrations is The Oakham Canal by David Tew (Brewhouse Press, Wymondham, 1968) which contains a large number of truly appalling daubs by Rigby Graham.)

Idris wrote:
I never, ever liked that book, primarily because of the pictures.

You're not alone in that sentiment.

The book 'Mike and the Modelmakers' by M Sasek should be regarded as a historical document, The two drawings of the Lee Conservancy factory and the drawing of the Easyway complex are extremely accurate, The artist that drew them was obviously at the locations he illustrated, So if he was there to draw the outside of the factory he must have been there to have drawn the pictures of the inside and of the machinery so to my mind we should not undervalue the book.

nickjones wrote:The book 'Mike and the Modelmakers' by M Sasek should be regarded as a historical document, The two drawings of the Lee Conservancy factory and the drawing of the Easyway complex are extremely accurate, The artist that drew them was obviously at the locations he illustrated, So if he was there to draw the outside of the factory he must have been there to have drawn the pictures of the inside and of the machinery so to my mind we should not undervalue the book.

I'm not disputing the accuracy of the drawings. It's just the style which I dislike (intensely).

Not so much of a fan of the style either myself. Held off buying it many times, until finally last year picked up a copy for a couple of bucks at a toyfair - which was all I was prepared to part with for it. Read it to my 3 year old daughter who lost interest almost right away. All it has going for it is that it has useful information about the whole process of creating a Matchbox toy. I retain it only for reference and for the sake of completeness of my Matchbox literature collection...

Cheers,
Gavin