SMS88 wrote:...Nigel´s playworn example which turned up at a 1970s London swapmeet proving that unknown quantities of extras were made and used by Lesney within the UK for unknown multiple purposes,perhaps even stuffed into boxes and sold!!
Pure and unadulterated supposition without so much as one iota of evidence to support it!
The crimped-axle 13d reverse colour Wreckers were fakes, are fakes and always will be fakes!
SMS88 wrote:...Nigel´s playworn example which turned up at a 1970s London swapmeet proving that unknown quantities of extras were made and used by Lesney within the UK for unknown multiple purposes,perhaps even stuffed into boxes and sold!!
Pure and unadulterated supposition without so much as one iota of evidence to support it!
The crimped-axle 13d reverse colour Wreckers were fakes, are fakes and always will be fakes!
Nigel´s model is sufficient evidence for me on top of the Joe Stone -Bob Brennan legend,and I would suggest Idris makes an effort to get to hold Nigel´s model in his own hand then he can make an objective decison for himself whether or not that toy feels like a real Lesney or not!
Idris meant to say any wide wheel arch no gas tank flap 73c body fitted with RW were fakes, are fakes and always will be fakes!
SMS88 wrote:Idris meant to say any wide wheel arch no gas tank flap 73c body fitted with RW were fakes, are fakes and always will be fakes!
No I did not! I meant what I wrote, which is that the crimped-axle reverse colour 13d Wreckers are fakes. (Thank you for giving me the opportunity to reiterate that, Mick.)
We discussed these wretched fake 13d Wreckers ad nauseam on the old forum, and everyone (except you) was convinced that they were most definitely not factory-authorised, Code 1 models, so give it a rest.
SMS88 wrote:Idris meant to say any wide wheel arch no gas tank flap 73c body fitted with RW were fakes, are fakes and always will be fakes!
No I did not! I meant what I wrote, which is that the crimped-axle reverse colour 13d Wreckers are fakes. (Thank you for giving me the opportunity to reiterate that, Mick.)
We discussed these wretched fake 13d Wreckers ad nauseam on the old forum, and everyone (except you) was convinced that they were most definitely not factory-authorised, Code 1 models, so give it a rest.
Yet there are litterally dozens more crimped 13d that are known to exist compared to claims of 2 SF73c bodies factory fitted with RW!
Also Numi´s opinion that the glazing unit in Harvey´s ebay 23c can easily be positively identified as the same unit removed from the repainted pre-pro 23c that we all know merely points the finger of suspicion where a couple of unrivited SF73 bodies has been matched up with RW baseplates which may even have been chopped off other toys. As Christian F pointed out before, anybody presenting a body made in late 1971 as a genuine code 1 RW is asking for such a leap of faith as to put their credibilty under the microscope. Can it be a coincidence that 2 models from the same collector , the ebay 23c looking like a custom and the never photgraphed RW73 so far off the production timelines are the central topics of debate here this week? Mr moko over on the customs forum here has shown us what he has done with his homemade Lesney riviting tool respinning them!
SMS88 wrote:...there are litterally dozens more crimped 13d that are known to exist compared to claims of 2 SF73c bodies factory fitted with RW!
So? It doesn't make them any more genuine!
Of course it does because they are proven to really exist rather than the unsupported words of 2 collectors who could be winding Nick up! Tinman is probably the only person to have one in his hand and not regard it as genuine factory made Lesney and even he said those wheel crimps were indistinguishable from other genuine Lesney crimps.
SMS88 wrote:Of course it does because they are proven to really exist rather than the unsupported words of 2 collectors who could be winding Nick up! Tinman is probably the only person to have one in his hand and not regard it as genuine factory made Lesney and even he said those wheel crimps were indistinguishable from other genuine Lesney crimps.
So if something exists in more than penny numbers, it automatically counts as a Code 1 model does it? Not in my (or anyone else's) book it doesn't!
It wouldn't matter is there were dozens, hundereds or even thousands of these faked reverse colour 13d Wreckers around, They would still remain, and always be, fakes. The number that exist is totally irrelevant when it comes to discussing thier status. A pre-production of which only one is know to exist (or, perhaps better, survive) is no less genuine because there is only a single example known.
Idris wrote:............ The number that exist is totally irrelevant when it comes to discussing thier status. A pre-production of which only one is know to exist (or, perhaps better, survive) is no less genuine because there is only a single example known.
None should mean no status!
Some need to be proven to exist to have any status for genuine collectors rather than speculating dealers who will sell anything that is demanded,making it to order on occasions! As I have said before,without photographic proof this rumoured RW73 cannot be proven genuine and the 2014 belief of some members here that Lesney decided to make a run of RW73 late in 1971 ( or in 1972 or 1973 as per kwakers) for sale in Giftsets eluded Harold Colpitts and other respected writers for 40 years thus will have no credence with the majority of collectors of genuine 1-75 series toys.Not even C.Mack has claimed this absurd variation exists yet to the best of my knowledge
[quote="SMS88...Lesney decided to make a run of RW73...in 1972 or 1973 as per kwakers...[/quote]
As has already been clarified by Kwakers and then highlighted by me in reponse to a previous erroneous post by you, that is most defintely not what Kwakers meant.
I strongly suggest you read the previous posts in this thread before you make another contribution.
Idris wrote:[quote="SMS88...Lesney decided to make a run of RW73...in 1972 or 1973 as per kwakers...
As has already been clarified by Kwakers and then highlighted by me in reponse to a previous erroneous post by you, that is most defintely not what Kwakers meant.
I strongly suggest you read the previous posts in this thread before you make another contribution.[/quote]
It has been very slow on this forum the past month - nothing like a controversial issue with multiple choices to warm up frozen hobbies!
This whole thread has warmed up the debate about integrity of specific toys & sellers,errors in the listings & is actually about a #73 rumoured variation which is far less likely to exist than many other variations which dont exist but could easily have been made in 1970,for example the metallic plum coloured #19 Lotus with RW or even either of the 2 SF bodies made fro the 24c with RW (the 1970 enlarged arches or the 1971 with even larger arches) or the RW3c with the 1971 even wider wheel arch body.
