17d Foden Hoveringham Tipper

[durangokid]

The pictures and the timeline of casting changes on this 17 Tipper are way beyond anything I expected to ever be seen on this particular casting Bill, well done Lad. The narrow front axle support is a tough one to find, and this proves Stannard's illustration of it was very flawed in his 1985 Lesney Guide. His illustration proves he had never seen that first cast axle support, or that he had exagerated its tapper as a narrow triangle, not the straight support seen here in your excellent picture. Stannard shows it as a much narrower triangle when viewed from the front or rear of the Tipper. In fact, I believe that "Round" support as well pictured in your Post is slightly triangular when viewed from the side, not from the front or rear, but has not been shown or pictured anywhere as of yet. The collector who gave this seminar had to have spent years closely studying the changes on this Tipper in order to have done such a precise presentation on it.
I agree with Hugh that several changes done at once was not Lesney's usual practice, but I believe this man's research is as clear and concise as ever I have seen done on any Lesney casting. It may take us a long time to find or prove this man missed anything Hugh, I am amazed at several points both Stannard and our AIM and NAMC "Bibles" had missed (Along with thousands of serious Collectors) concerning plastic suspension support changes. Thanks Once Again Bill, Kwakers

Kwakers,
Thank you for your comments and kind words. This thread has certainly been a learning experience for me and the variations are pretty amazing.
The collector who put the narrations/photos together is extremely knowledgeable and has studied the background on many models including comparisons of Stannard, AIM, etc., and his own basis of cataloging and evaluating models. I am glad that I was able to get some of his information on the site.
Every time I visit with him, I learn something new! I am hoping that one day-- he will start posting on the site as he can make some tremendous contributions......
Bill

[Idris]

The collector who put the narrations/photos together is extremely knowledgeable and has studied the background on many models including comparisons of Stannard, AIM, etc., and his own basis of cataloging and evaluating models...I am hoping that one day-- he will start posting on the site as he can make some tremendous contributions.

I think he would fit in here extremely well, is there anything we can do to encourage him to sign up?

[kay]

I think he would fit in here extremely well, is there anything we can do to encourage him to sign up?

Once a year he's giving a presentation during the Albuquerque Matchbox Gathering, but I think that's the only public appearance he wants to do.
Usually Bill, Greg, Jim and I get a copy of his presentation - and he gave us his approval to use the contents whenever we think it is appropriate.
We have already tried to get him here a couple of times, but with no success so far.....

Kay

[kwakers]

Maybe if he is encouraged to simply be an anonymous "Lurker" for the time being, he will see that his knowledge of Lesney castings will fit right in here. I would suggest contacting him to inform him that his research on this 17D was met with Great Joy here on our Forum. I suppose that has already been done in thinking about it now, he had no idea the earliest straight front bumper existed before Antonin had shared his example here. That bit of news alone should be proof enough that he also has knowledge to gain by visiting and checking in with us regularly.
If it should help any, you may also tell him of a Caveman type of collector from the Adirondack Mountains of New York who after 53 years of collecting the Lesney Regular Wheel line is still learning here on Nick's Forum. This was in fact my first and only Forum that I joined 10 years ago now, and the excitement of discovery and the sharing of all the knowledge here has really been Great! kwakers

[kerbside]

This one seems to be an odd ball, it is a 1st issue model with Green supports, but it has the vertical wall under the 3rd axle. It has a small tipper stop with no reinforcement under the front bumper centre no Silver trim on the front bumper and yet the whole of the front grille is Silver trimmed



George T.

[Diecast]

[quote="durangokid]
Antonin,
Thank you for this photo. In discussing this with my fellow collector who put together the detailed subject narration, neither one of us have ever seen the white spring model without the raised centre to the front bumper!
Would you be so kind as to post additional photos of this model that show all of the base and under-carriage and any thoughts about it that you might have??
Thank you,
Bill[/quote]

Sorry Bill for delay, but I was in Singapore. I am enclosing some additional photos. I have checked the model and I have not found anything suspicious.
Antonin

[Diecast]

I finally get it, the variation with a round pointed brace under the front axle.

[kwakers]

Congratulations Antonin, that front narrow brace is a tough casting to find. I do not call it "round", because no one has pictured the brace from the side of it yet. My example looks like a narrow triangle when viewed past the side of the front tire, not at all "round" when seen from that direction. To put it differently, my front brace resembles Stannard's incorrect illustration of the narrow brace shown on his front axle, but that picture is rotated 90 degrees from my model, not at all "Round"....... kwakers

[Diecast]

Congratulations Antonin, that front narrow brace is a tough casting to find. I do not call it "round", because no one has pictured the brace from the side of it yet. My example looks like a narrow triangle when viewed past the side of the front tire, not at all "round" when seen from that direction. To put it differently, my front brace resembles Stannard's incorrect illustration of the narrow brace shown on his front axle, but that picture is rotated 90 degrees from my model, not at all "Round"....... kwakers

Thanks, Dick, for your expert and professional comments (as usual). You're right, the brace is not round, but it has a conical trapezoidal shape with rounded corners. I do not know, but for me it seems to be a rare variation. How many guys here have this variation in his collection?
Antonin

[yellowfoden]

I believe that "Round" support as well pictured in your Post is slightly triangular when viewed from the side, not from the front or rear, but has not been shown or pictured anywhere as of yet.

Hello Dick and Antonin,

Hope this is the view you were thinking of Kwakers. This one is my younger brother’s and has seen many a play mile. Has the typical bent axle from plenty of play, but a much loved model and now I look after it.

Note to Bill (durangokid), please thank your collector friend for his nicely detailed catalogue work, I very much enjoy this.

Bert