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Re: Valuable Error Piece!
Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 7:46 am
by Idris
motorman wrote:If in the tumbling process wheels where prone to get lodged behind the cab then why do we not see more of them?
The 20a had a 3 year production run so my question is did the tumbling of the body castings and wheels together continued throughout the entire 3 year production run or is it the case that this problem of the wheel getting stuck was identified early in the production run and measures where put in place to prevent it happening, i.e tumbling the body casts and wheels seperately, thereby keeping the numbers of these error pieces on the low side??
I would expect to see many more examples of this "error" surfacing given the long production run if as you suggest no steps where put in place to prevent it happening.
The fact that the spare wheel variation is only know to exist in maroon with silver trim, clearly indicates that something changed during the manufacturing process to prevent this from happening.
Also, the comparitive scarcity of the variation indicates that something was limiting the number of error pieces produced.
Re: Valuable Error Piece!
Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 9:50 am
by SMS88
nickjones wrote:The 20a was made between 1956 and 59, long before any collectors clubs existed, The wheels were cast at the same time as the bodies on the same piece of sprue. The 20a castings were rumbled or tumbled together in a large revolving drum, They were then tipped out and the pieces of sprue were picked out by hand leaving the just the bodies and the wheels, The wheels went into a tin marked #20 and were sent for grenodising and the bodies went off to the paint shop to be painted. The #20 wheels were made specifically for the ERF as there was no number cast on the body, only the wheels were numbered.
Interesting! So now I wonder if they cast any extra wheels,perhaps 5 per body shell??? We know some wheels certainly didnt make it onto axles -those that were painted behind cabs or are some MW 20a known with other model´s tyres fitted? Have any tyres with ´´20´´ cast on them ever been found on other models? When the 20a went over to gpw then we can guess that the MW made by the mould were just recycled alongside the sprues!
Re: Valuable Error Piece!
Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 1:05 pm
by Idris
SMS88 wrote:Interesting! So now I wonder if they cast any extra wheels,perhaps 5 per body shell???
The rarity of the variation makes this highly unlikely.
Re: Valuable Error Piece!
Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 7:48 pm
by nickjones
The fact that the gold trimmed model is extremely rare in its own right and the gpw version would not have been rumbled with its wheels probably explains why neither are found with the spare wheel, I would imagine the process that inserts the wheel must take quite a bit of force to get it there, and it may well have been more common but the wedged in spare wheels could have been removed by quality control before the casting went for painting.
Re: Valuable Error Piece!
Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 7:59 pm
by SMS88
nickjones wrote:The fact that the gold trimmed model is extremely rare in its own right and the gpw version would not have been rumbled with its wheels probably explains why neither are found with the spare wheel, I would imagine the process that inserts the wheel must take quite a bit of force to get it there, and it may well have been more common but the wedged in spare wheels could have been removed by quality control before the casting went for painting.
If MW 1-75 series had the wheels cast on the sprue with the body or baseplate how come there are so many instances of models fitted with matching sets of wheels with other model numbers cast on them?
Re: Valuable Error Piece!
Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 8:13 pm
by nickjones
There are models fitted with the wrong wheel numbers but they are by far outnumbered by the ones fitted with the correct number,
Re: Valuable Error Piece!
Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 8:55 pm
by Idris
nickjones wrote:The fact that the gold trimmed model is extremely rare in its own right and the gpw version would not have been rumbled with its wheels probably explains why neither are found with the spare wheel, I would imagine the process that inserts the wheel must take quite a bit of force to get it there, and it may well have been more common but the wedged in spare wheels could have been removed by quality control before the casting went for painting.
1) You are forgetting the dark red MW variations (variation codes 6 and 7), neither of which have been found with spares to the best of my knowledge, and
2) Quality Control? At Lesney?
Re: Valuable Error Piece!
Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 9:59 pm
by nickjones
How many maroon 20a's with spare tyres have you seen?.
I know of 3.
Re: Valuable Error Piece!
Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 10:02 pm
by SMS88
nickjones wrote:There are models fitted with the wrong wheel numbers but they are by far outnumbered by the ones fitted with the correct number,
IF MW were always cast on a sprue with body or baseplates and we know that there were never enough with the correct model number to complete all examples of the smaller MW toys Lesney must have made up the shortfall of wheels by scrapping body castings for which no wheels would be available without re-filling moulds making new castings of bodies with wheels.There would only be 4 slightly different wheels with each numbered #20 if we are to prove Nick´s statement.If there are more than 4 different wheels cast with #20 that would prove that moulds which made dozens of wheels on one sprue were in use.
Re: Valuable Error Piece!
Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 10:07 pm
by Idris
nickjones wrote:How many maroon 20a's with spare tyres have you seen?.
I know of 3.
Ummm...that's a very good question.
Now that I stop to think about it, I also know of three complete ones (what used to be yours, mine, plus one other), and three which are now missing their spares (i.e. with unpainted areas on the backboard and cab).
I need to have a look at the wording of the article covering this model in U.K. Matchbox, because from somewhere I've got the impression that a significant number are known. (Having said that, it did take me almost 35 years to find one!)