6b with silver trim

[Tinman]

Not sure where this should go as there is some minor talk about silver trim on Georges forum in the #6 thread and then Hugh has his trim colors thread. So if someone moves this into another thread, that's fine by me.

When it comes to the 6b with silver trim, this is a variation that needs to be viewed with great scrutiny. The 6a had trim, the 6c had trim (although only for a very short time), so why couldn't the 6b have trim?  The time line is one of concern here as by 59 mask spray trim was the routine for 1-75's & Majors.One thing I never seen in hand or in a photograph is mask sprayed trim on a 6b.  Then there is the coverage or difference in the application of so many of the models that do have silver trim. Some have just the headlights. Other have the headlights and the entire grille including the outer frame going down the sides where the lights are. Still others only have inner portion of the grille painted.Since none of them were mask sprayed, this means that there was little or no guidance on how to detail the grille and/or headlights.  So what else is still being hand painted (hand trimmed) at Lesney in those days?  Yesteryear's, milk float horses (who can think of something else?).  However, for the most part, none of those other items being hand detailed had staff running wild with their applications (they were very consistent).

I bought two of these trucks when they first came out. They both had crimped axles and decals. They were for my HO railroad layout. They were also covered in so  much boring yellow (with exception of the decals) that they needed something. So I detailed both the grills in silver. That silver detailing (along with sometimes red and black) would happen to other Matchbox models I used on the layout.  I know this was a common trend back in the day and I was far from being in a minority doing this.

Over the next 50 years I would acquire many more examples of the 6b, in fact, way too many.  I had a fascination with Scammell's overall design and especially the three pane windscreen. I bought just about any/every examples of the 6b I came across in the 80's, 90's & 2000s. When I went to sell off my collection, I must had had half a gross of 6b models (boxed/mint, loose/mint and every combination and condition down the line). In that massive lot, several had silver trim applied. They all varied quite a bit in the exact locations where the trim was applied. Some even had a silver front bumper along with the grille. As others on various forums discovered silver trimmed 6b's I allowed my opinion to be swayed to the thoughts that this trim may have been factory applied for a short time. However, I literally had my own fairly large group of random sample 6b's and with the advent of ebay, these came from around the world (not just USA examples). The silver trim examples varied in the amount of coverage and extended to all variations in the time line.

There was one purchase which, at first, reinforced the thought that the trim was factory applied and then (rather quickly) caused me to abandon the thoughts that silver trim was applied at the factory.  I'll explain. A collector I know (and I suspect many here know who he is too, mainly from another now dead forum) purchased a group lot of Matchbox models from the widow of a recently passed model railroader. As did many, the model railroader kept the boxes for the models as they were a great was to safely store and organize the  models when not in use. Model railroaders (including myself), would often purchase multiples of the same items to use in various scenes on the layouts.  They would detail these models to suit their fancy, sometimes even repainting the models or removing original decals/labels to install their own.  This is something I did as well. It was common enough that there were hobby magazine articles about modifications to models.

The gentleman who purchased the collection had three or four mint boxed 6b's in the lot of models (nearly everything was mint/boxed).  I took a look at all of the 6b models and everyone was an early casting, crimp axles, biff pin on the dump, with decal and hand applied silver trim. I pointed out the early casting to a fellow collector (from Spring Hill Florida) and he bought one, I bought the rest.  I wanted to believe they were all factory applied silver trim. I had a gander at some of the rest of the models from the same collection. There was a wide assortment of detailing that had gone on with the rest of them. Some had additional silver trim (above an beyond the factory trim).  Some had tail light and other detailing, one model had grey plastic wheels painted black (and not on just one but both examples of that model).I tried to hold on to the factory applied silver trim theory for the 6b. After seeing these models from the model railroad collection (which had been detailed just like my own), I began to abandon that opinion. Especially in light of finding silver trim (always hand applied) to models that came later in the time line.  Looking for input/opinions from others on this subject.

[Idris]

Silver trim on the 6b is an interesting one . It was touched on here, but was discussed more fully on Lefora, first here, and then again here.
As Joe points out, the lack of consistency in what was trimmed at the front end is definitely a cause for concern. I'm sure arguments could be found for justifying the hand trimming, but the absence of a mask-trimmed example leaves the trimmed models open to extra close scrutiny.
One point which Joe has not touched on is the decal. What I was told in the early 1980s was that the model was ready before the decals, and the very first models were therefore released to retailers without the decals. Now, if trimming were part of the model specification and was subsequently dropped, it would be reasonable to expect the silver trim to appear on those decal-less models. However, all the trimmed examples that I've seen, have been carried decals. Look at it another way: trimming costs money, decals cost money. It would seem reasonable that models carry either trim or a decal, but that's not the case. We have models with neither, models with both, and models with only the decal. That makes no sense to me.
On the other hand, some of these trimmed models just might be genuine factory products, and we could be looking at the results of some kind of trial (c.f. 23c with windows). Perhaps the cost implications of having both trim and decals killed off the idea. Who knows?

[Tinman]

While on the 6b subject I have an unlisted "time line" buster.
Description:
Decal: With decal.
Wheels: BPW, same size as all.
Axle type: Dome rounded.
Windscreen: ANGLED TOP!
Fuel tank: W/block
Tipper brace: NO BRACE!
Tipper pin: BIFF PIN!

I think the no brace dumper might have been in production longer than the time line indicates and... the angle top windscreen in use sooner than the time line shows. I can understand finding maybe a left over no brace dumper to mate to the last casting cab (with angled windscreen top) but to have them jointed that late in the game with a biff pin would not have happened. That's why I'm calling this model a time line buster.

[Idris]

Having thought about this, I think the way forward is for everyone with a silver-trimmed model to post a photograph along with the Nick Jones' variation code.
Hopefully a pattern will emerge (with a certain amount of noise caused by model railway super-detailing).

[tractorboy]

I have 3 that appear to be:

1 has silver trim on radiator surface, headlights and bumper edge (let me know if you need close up/different angle shots)

1 that is:

[matchbox_n_molars]

Mine is a Code 1 on Nick's lineup. The silver trim paint is definitely brushed on and confined to the front face of the grill & radiator, the top of the radiator tank, and the two headlamps:

[Tinman]

Mine is a Code 1 on Nick's lineup. The silver trim paint is definitely brushed on and confined to the front face of the grill & radiator, the top of the radiator tank, and the two headlamps:

IMG-0811.jpg

Is that one of the models you bought from me?

[Idris]

here's my example: Nick Jones variation code 1, hand-applied trim to the radiator grille only.
(Greg - according the the second Lefora thread, you have a very similar model in playworn condition. Any chance you could repost the photographs here, together with the variation code? I can only access a defaced version via the Lefora thread - see below.))

[Idris]

Silver trim on the 6b is an interesting one . It was touched on here, but was discussed more fully on Lefora, first here, and then again here.

I'm concious of the fact that not everyone has access to Lefora, so I've just reread the two threads linked above in order to provide a summary.
To a certain extent, the discussions were rather like a dog chasing it's tail, and simply went round and round in circles, never reaching a conclusion. However, towards the end, the beginnings of a consensus did begin to emerge. It was agreed that a large number of the trimmed models are the result of post-factory embellishment by railway modellers, and this goes at least some way to explaining the wide variety of trim coverage that we see.No evidence of mask spraying was presented, and the fact that all the models shown were mint was seen as a major stumbling block, but latterly a playworn hand-trimmed model did surface (see my post above, and photograph lifted from Lefora below). A significant number of models were Nick Jones variation code 1, and it was felt that factory trim, if applied at all, would have been restricted to the front face of the model, perhaps even to just the radiator grille.

[kerbside]

My 6b model with a Silver Grille.

George T.