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The following exchange has occurred in the missing & unlisted 1-75 Superfast variations area.

DrJeep wrote:

Idris wrote:When Members give topics titles, could they please thing about searchability. IMHO, the title should give the model number (incl. suffix) and, ideally, the generally accepted model name. (In this particular case, I've updated 58 to 58c.)

I agree, but that doesn’t seem to happen much on SFs in this topic, I suppose because this is either the 58c or 58a depending on whether you use Charlie Mack’s SF system or not. Very few posts use either!

It raises some interesting questions, not least because it involves personal preferences. Rather than hijacking Glenn's thread, I thought it better to start a separate discussion here. So, let me kick off with my own very firm views on the subject.

Personally, I have always felt that Maurice A. Hammond (he of the white plastic horse towing his 7a Milk Float) had the right idea when he coded the SF version of a RW model as a separate issue. So, for instance, the SF version of the 58c DAF Girder Truck would be the 58d. It greatly simplifies life because then it is immediately clear whether the text in question refers to the RW or the SF version., and I really do think Nick missed a trick by not adopting Hammond's numbering scheme. The American scheme whereby the letter suffix starts again at 'a' when moving from RW to SF is even more confusing than having RW and SF versions of the same model share the same suffix. Nevertheless, it seems to be becoming ingrained amongst SF collectors on both sides of the Atlantic.
I would be extremely interested to know what other Members, especially SF collectors, think about how the letter suffixes should be handled.

I prefer to use the American suffixes as any Superfast I put on I put the model # on and add SF,

and as I only put them in the Superfast forums makes difference.

Every one to his own when it comes to collecting.

George T.

Personally I use the Mack codes but I always cross check with Nick’s listing and I like Christian’s also because he shows both the UK code and the Mack code.
My own record for the SF models I have are spreadsheet listed with columns Mack and UK

Given that the forum is referenced to Nick’s pages I think any codes put on the VBD should be the same as used in Nicks pages and where possible the alternate code added either by author, admin or moderator.

In the unlisted sf forum there are over 15 different formats within the 92 topics.

Because the search function relies on three consecutive characters most are either only two characters or have a crosshatch or a space , all of which will not work. It would be nice to see these standardised with a three character code for the search function.

UK code 58c works and could have 58a (US) inserted also.
UK code 5e will need to be 05e and could have 05a (US) also.

However the problem with changing any of these heading is that it breaks the links that we often have used when discussing models in the past.

In saying that though I think in the long term we can edit those links as they are found and the site will be much more professional with standardised headings.

Not being able to search due mainly to 2 characters I am sure is a turn off for collectors when you have to scan 4 pages or 92 topics if key words do not exist or misspelt.

Bert

It would be much easier if the suffixes were consecutive. As they're not, I'd choose to stick with the way Christian does it on his website, because it's the definitive source of information for SF.

Bert's right - the SF missing variations pages are really difficult to navigate. Searching is very hard because you can't search for 2 figure numbers, and names aren't always there. There are multiple threads for some models, and many haven't been covered at all. We could fix some of this by editing the titles of the threads to include numbers and proper names. I do wonder whether there's quite as much interest in new SF casting variations as in RW?

I have never used a three digit number for I.D. purposes within my own collection. A rolls-royce silver shadow to me is always a 24, 24c or #24c, never 024, 024c or #024c. This obviousely comes with me to the forum. It could be changed for the benefit of searching the forum but until we have a standard to work to its a problem.

I would think most collectors have used the same numbers seen in pocket catalogues, a first hand source for many as we get our first models in childhhod and Lesney have not helped in keeping the miniatures pegged at 75 issues for a long time and adding new models to old numbers forcing the A, B, C and D suffix.

Because we are human, we will forget to correctly name the models in topic titles. Admin and Mods could pick up on this when spotted and just do the correction, but again are prone to forget to...sorry, what was I going to say?

Ghosty.

GHOSTHUNTER wrote:I have never used a three digit number for I.D. purposes within my own collection. A rolls-royce silver shadow to me is always a 24, 24c or #24c, never 024, 024c or #024c. This obviousely comes with me to the forum. It could be changed for the benefit of searching the forum but until we have a standard to work to its a problem.

I would think most collectors have used the same numbers seen in pocket catalogues, a first hand source for many as we get our first models in childhhod and Lesney have not helped in keeping the miniatures pegged at 75 issues for a long time and adding new models to old numbers forcing the A, B, C and D suffix.

Because we are human, we will forget to correctly name the models in topic titles. Admin and Mods could pick up on this when spotted and just do the correction, but again are prone to forget to...sorry, what was I going to say?

Ghosty.

There are two issues here.

The first is the expression of interest from Hugh about what members want to see as headings in the superfast sections.
The choices using number 58 DAF Girder truck as an example:

58c UK type
58d Hammond format using consecutive suffix
58a US type
LS 58-A Christian type ( note using a space and hyphen will not work in search tool)

The second issue is the search and sorting function of the forum.
I am not sure what you are referring to with respect to using three digit number codes or codes like 024 or 024c and #024c. Nobody has suggested this 3 DIGIT format or 4 or 5 character format.
My reference to 5e and 05e is to address the issue of model 1 to 9 which need to be a three character code like 05e so that not only can they be searched for successfully but when you want to use the SORT function it puts all posts into numerical sequence. Every other number from 10 to 75 already has two number and suffix and when consecutive (i.e. no spaces) search successfully.

Bert

The regular wheel models can stand on their own. The superfast models can also stand on their own but regular wheel models converted to superfast are what causes numbering problems hence which one or method do we use.

I would prefer to use a numbering system based on what we see in catalogues.

Regards searching for a superfast model on the forum, it would have been helpful if each model's topic title had Superfast included...

58 Superfast DAF Girder truck.

'58c DAF Girder Truck' does come up with the search function but this will then certainly be the regular wheeled version so by adding 'Superfast' into the title this should bring up the superfast versions (once this is included in the topic title).

Ghosthunter.

GHOSTHUNTER wrote:The regular wheel models can stand on their own. The superfast models can also stand on their own but regular wheel models converted to superfast are what causes numbering problems hence which one or method do we use.

I would disagree. The Superfast models do not stand on their own if they start again at 'a' since that is a potential source of confusion. If Members want to use the American SF numbering convention, then perhaps we should consider prefixing the model no. with either RW or SF. So, in this instance, the DAF Girder Truck would be either RW58c or SF58a. (Could we get away with leaving out the RW, i.e. using 58c and SF58a?)

Idris wrote:

GHOSTHUNTER wrote:The regular wheel models can stand on their own. The superfast models can also stand on their own but regular wheel models converted to superfast are what causes numbering problems hence which one or method do we use.

I would disagree. The Superfast models do not stand on their own if they start again at 'a'.

I always thought starting over with the A to mean the first issue superfast was confusing.

To save confusion I always tend to say SF# or RW# when I quote model numbers. I find a lot of American friends/collectors like to use Macks variations table numbers.