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What do you make of this box?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Matchbox-1-7 ... true&rt=nc

That's a new one on me.
Thank you for flagging it up as a discussion topic.

I think we need Matchbox Pat to help here

A quick search on Vectis has shown they have sold a couple of Vauxhall Victor Estates in D type boxes also bearing the JS&W mark, both New Model boxes. There may well be more on there.

Hi John,

Thanks for adding the detail of the J.S&W 47b D box to add to the puzzle of printers marks found on Lesney boxes.

We have discussed the J.S&W mark in the past on the forum but like the TP mark found on some boxes we have yet to find out exactly the origin.

Here is a picture I had saved in my “printers mark” folder and as you can see it shows the J.S&W mark on the glue flap so this would not normally be seen unless box unfolded.

The second picture is the end flap of a box which I have documented as yesteryear and this time the J.S&W mark is in black as apposed to white with blue back ground.

The third image is from the side flap of a 38b Vauxhall D box.

Whoever the printer mark belonged to it was spread over a long period given it has been found on B type and D type boxes in the regular wheels from possibly a period from about 1956 to 1964.(or even later)

It is quite possible that many boxes have this J.S&W mark that we do not know about given it could be printed on the glue flap. Not sure we would have too many volunteers to unfold their boxes to check.

Best wishes to everyone for a safe and healthy 2019.

Bert

I thought you'd come up with the goods on this one, Bert!
The fact that JS&W chose, at least in part, to hide their printer's mark, means that we have a distorted perception of how big a player they were when it came to supplying Lesney.
I wonder if their boxes have any design quirks which would allow us to distinguish unmarked examples from Pembroke and Bowater offerings?

Excellent, thanks Bert, I wasn't aware of past discussions. I see they put some sort of reference code on the flaps 10,20 etc.

Hello Alex, Hugh, John and all,

Further to the above I have taken photos of two boxes that have unfolded over time.
One is a Pembroke Abbey and the other is Bowater Scott. There is quite a bit of information with these two images if you look closely.
One has the printer mark on the glue flap so is generally not seen but it shows the flags on the side flaps.
The other has the printer mark Pembroke Abbey on the side flap and the markings on the glue flap differ to the other box. This box is from September 1960 and one of my most important boxes.
Both printers use different markings for setting as well as distinct text, either being printed font or hand written.
Each box has either one, two or no cut out on the glue flap which could be an easy way to identify these boxes simply by looking inside.(these look a little like wheel arch cut outs)

I have cropped and combined the three different glue flaps so that it is easier to compare each of the printers work or quirks as Hugh was alluding to.
This may help us identify if the printers were related in any way.

Bert

ps. make sure you click on the image so that you see all the detail.

Here's a JS&W mark and, like John's, it's also on a 47b Commer ice cream van box. This one's not hidden at all. When I got this one I did wonder whether the box was original but I'm fairly certain it is, from the colour of the card and the general poor state.

Hi Glenn,

Thanks for adding the 47b D box to this thread. Can you have a look inside the box please and see if it has the small semi circular cut out (either 1 or 2 ) on the glue flap that match one of the boxes in my composite image above.
Can you also tell us please if it is a NEW MODEL box.
I see one small difference in that the side flap does not have the number 10 like the one John alerted us to on ebay.

Bert