Printer's Plate

[Idris]

I was recently lucky enough to acquire this printer's (offset litho?) plate for the black ink on an early box:

Plate 1(s).jpg (21.71 KiB) Viewed 3931 times

Plate 2(s).jpg (42.14 KiB) Viewed 3931 times

The seller told me the following: "The plate came from a factory at Trafford Park, Manchester , it must be over 20 years ago that I was standing at Bowlers toy fair at Trafford Park when a couple of guys came in and said they were helping to demolish the factory and they had some items in the boot of their car. There must have been over 40 of these plates for different Matchbox regular wheels, plus lots of boxes which where flat and not glued together plus one large sheet of about 40 or 50 boxes which included No 80 which of course became No 25b the Volkswagen 1200." (I cannot find any referenced on-line to this particular factory but, given the location, it was probably one of Bowater Scott's.)
I have been looking for the correct box to go with this plate. Based on the end-flap (model no. only), it is either a B2 or B3 box and, having had a good look at Pat's box guide, it appears that the box could have contained either a 6a or a 6b (in spite of the illustration). Furthermore, on the basis of various Ebay listings, I have come to the conclusion that the dump truck illustration should be yellow and black, rather than red and black.

s-l1600(s).jpg (21.13 KiB) Viewed 3931 times

However, I cannot find an illustration of a 100% matching box. I can find ones that are extremely similar but, in all cases, the shading in the windows is slightly different and the line on the front of the cab, just above the windows, is too low.

Plate 3(s).jpg (20.19 KiB) Viewed 3931 times

Can any Member provide an illustration of the box i am looking for?

[kerbside]

Hello Hugh, great items too have in your collection.

George T.

[MatchboxFreak]

What a great piece!
Congratulations!

(I wonder where the uncut sheet of boxes with the No. 80 is?!?!?)

[DrJeep]

I don't really collect boxes, but this very battered one came with a 6b for a grand total of £6. I know it's not the same as yours, but it's interesting to see the range of different illustrations.

[Idris]

...it's interesting to see the range of different illustrations.

You're right, Glenn.
I thought finding the correct box would be an absolute doddle, but was staggered to find just how many different illustrations there are. Not only is there the Pembroke Castle/Bowater difference, but I get the impression that there are subtle difference in the images used by each printer too. Matters are complicated by Pat's otherwise excellent website not (yet?) addressing the issue of different artwork on the same issue box.
However, I do find myself wondering whether this plate survived simply because it was never used. Hence the difficulty I'm experiencing in finding the matching box.

[DrJeep]

I do find myself wondering whether this plate survived simply because it was never used.

Wouldn't that be amazing? I am surprised that there are so many slightly different illustrations of the 6a / 6b.

[jsherwood]

Hi, I've trawled through vectis history as well as an ebay and google search and I can't find a match to that plate either. I'll keep an eye out for it though.

[ritchie]

Interesting piece. Great find!

[yellowfoden]

...it's interesting to see the range of different illustrations.

However, I do find myself wondering whether this plate survived simply because it was never used. Hence the difficulty I'm experiencing in finding the matching box.

Hello Hugh, Glenn and all,

A very nice addition to the collection.

My thoughts too are that this plate was not used.
Does the plate have a notch or bent corner as this could help determine the maker or printer.

This looks to be smaller in size than other box printing plates I have studied in the past which measured about 10.5 inches x 16 inches which could indicate the larger plates were from another printer. They were generally made from thin aluminium (aluminum) , is yours this material and polished on the back?
Orientation could either be landscape or portrait.

This plate shows this as being a B2 box(orB3), normally the thin cut or fold lines would be visible on these plates suggesting an early attempt of your plate.
Is there any etching of a printer number anywhere on the plate?

I attempted to see if there was a similarity between the red coloured model like Glenn has shown by making a line drawing as this box looks to use the same font as yours but has extra black text lower left
The first most obvious difference is the shape of the front windows between the red drawing and the black drawing.
The other interesting thing is the use of two different fonts with number 6 on the face and the 6 font on the end flaps.

This type artwork was also used on the early building constructors gift set (earlier than those boxes with G3) but again with extra text lower left and I vaguely recall seeing this type of drawing used on dealer catalogues.

I went through my boxes and have had a look at most of my photo record but an exact match to the line drawn truck has not been found. The text is identical to the B2 and so is the drawing detail behind the truck.
Personally this plate has a much better proportioned truck drawing than the red trucks boxes known as long dump box.

Attached another box image without text lower left but with matching font and scenery behind truck.

Bert

[Idris]

Thank you for your thoughts and efforts, Bert.
Unfortunately I'm working away from home this week, but I'll post the answers to your questions this weekend.