51C 8-Wheel Tipper DOUGLAS decals information

[tractorboy]

I was going to put this in the thread Little-Known 51c Variation here but felt it deserved its own thread (happy for it to be moved if felt appropriate).

Last week I received this e-mail ...

Dear Rodger,

I just thought you might be interested to hear that there is an additional variation of the Lesney Matchbox 8 wheeled tipper 51C, in addition to the variations you mention in your book. This variation had the “Douglas” stickers printed in black. I attach some photographs which may be of interest.

I think your book is wonderful, by the way. It was a real trip down memory lane.

With kind regards,

Philip Douglas

Attached were the following photographs

F2A66852BF9D4593801EC41383AC431E.jpg (81.63 KiB) Viewed 1984 times

CCD8E6F4D012429DA1F2C9451283ECB1.jpg (80.8 KiB) Viewed 1984 times

42FECA12C6364A2FB00C6137597DC7E6.jpg (119.65 KiB) Viewed 1984 times

I replied to the sender thanking him for the photos but didn't make the connection to his name.
Philip replied today with this e-mail ..

Dear Rodger,

Nice to hear from you. I love the photographs on your website. Absolutely glorious.

You are welcome to include the photographs of the Douglas truck in your guide if you wish to.

I do not know if you would be interested to hear the story of the development of this Matchbox truck? R M Douglas Construction was our family company which grew prominent in the 1960s and 1970s during the motorway building boom. Our trucks, plant and construction equipment were therefore often seen up and down the motorway system. The construction equipment was all painted orange, and our logo was "Douglas" written in Times New Roman letters in white on a black background. We also had a concrete and aggregates company, and their trucks were painted a deep red with grey mixers on the back.

Lesney must have decided to feature one of our trucks in their range. They sent a prototype to my father for comments. This was dreadfully inaccurate as it had a pale orange body and those pale orange stickers as on your right hand truck. I cannot now remember the sequence of events fully, but I do remember that my father was in contact with Lesney at least a couple of times to try to persuade them to get the colours right. They did darken the orange paint for the production version, but it still had orange stickers down the side! My father was therefore in contact with Lesney again, after the production run had begun, to try to get them to get the colours right.

I have seen comment on a collectors' forum speculating whether the trucks with white on black lettering were promotional products. I may be wrong about this, but I do not think that they were: I think that Lesney were eventually persuaded to get the logo colours correct. But as I say, I may be wrong about that. In any event, Lesney soon gave up and made the Pointer version instead.

There are only a few photographs of Douglas trucks on the internet as the company was sold to Tilbury Construction in the early 1990s, before the age of smart phones and the worldwide web. I do, however, still have a helmet, and attach a photograph as further evidence of our colours.

With kind regards,

Philip

and a photo of the helmet

P3180001.jpg (32.36 KiB) Viewed 1984 times

I believe this adds to the Lesney story of the production of this model and feel fortunate that Philip contacted me.
Let me know if you have any comments/questions before I reply to Philip.

[tractorboy]

I decided to do an immediate reply to Philip but will pass on any comment/questions that members have.

Good Day Philip,

What a great tale. To be honest I did not make the connection of your name and the truck decal when I replied to you.

I have posted the information/photo you have supplied on the British Diecast forum where we have been having discussions about the various decals and whether the black decal was a promotional piece.

I'm sure the information will be well received and hopefully there will be some questions for you.

It is a rare event to be in touch with someone who was connected with the Lesney story and also how they did not always get things correct. I will pass on any comments/questions if they come up.

Again, thank you for contacting me. It is only just sinking in how important this information is, as it adds fact to what before was only supposition and guesswork.

Regards

Rodger

[Idris]

Thank you for posting this ingfrmation Rodger - very, very interesting.
It sounds as though these monochrome labels should be seen as being the equivalent of a colour trial.

[tractorboy]

Just had a reply from Philip.

That is fine Rodger, if there are any questions, do pass them on, although I think I have already told you all I know about the truck. Incidentally, the prototype I mentioned is out there somewhere. When my father died, I specifically looked for it among his possessions and could not find it. That truck is unique!

With kind regards,

Philip

[GHOSTHUNTER]

That is a great story and background information. Please convey our thank's to Philip for being so open and kind regards the info.

There must be other stories like this out there waiting to be told but rarely do they see the light of Day, but even better when they do and come to the forum like this one has.

I agree with Hugh, this issue can now be seen as having 'Trial' model status.

Ghosthunter.

[Tinman]

A significant and very interesting development!

[DrJeep]

Fascinating, and really great to hear this extra piece of Matchbox history. This validates the black-labelled Douglas as a factory variation, presumably produced in very small quantities towards the end of the Douglas tipper period. Or as Hugh suggests a label colour trial, made at least partly to satisfy the owner of the real company. It’s interesting that the yellow-bodied Douglas has the orange label, suggesting black labels didn’t replace orange, unless these were leftovers from the store room. I do like the black-labelled version.

[kwakers]

Ditto on all of Dr. Jeep's comments, and many Thanks to Phillip and Roger for some history on the Douglas Trademark Logo of white letters on a black background. My added questions:
1. What is the history of the particular model that Phillip photographed and sent to Roger. Was it given to him by his Dad many years ago now, or perhaps was it found by him in his Dad's personal effects?
2. When learning of our Forum's lack of knowledge of ANY public release of these "Special" Tippers in U.K. Stores during 1969 or 1970, would Phillip be interested in doing a bit of added "Sherlock Holmes" investigating for us on them. Perhaps he may know of any long term office workers or any of Dad's friends who might have some early memories these Toys. Are we too late for that? Possibly, but now is the time to ask questions and do our own research, just in case others like Phillip have any other facts for us to enjoy and record........
Cheers! Kwakers

[tractorboy]

Thanks everyone, have passed on our thanks and the questions form kwackers.
Will let you know if Philip is able to provide any additional information.

[tractorboy]

Reply from Philip,

Dear Rodger,

Interesting questions.

1. My own lorry I have had for years, probably since 1970. I cannot remember how I was given it but I suppose my father gave it to me. These trucks were very important to him for a short period of time as he wanted Lesney to get them right. Black and white is a fairly straightforward colour combination! I think you could say he pursued the issue with vigour!

Incidentally, my brother tells me that he used to have both a black labelled truck and one with orange labels, but he cannot currently find either. It occurs to me now that my brother's orange labelled truck may be the original prototype.... I wonder.

2. With regards long term office workers, I cannot help. Since my father died I have had to go to the funerals of two directors, and so far as I am aware, only one director from the old days remains alive (as I have seen him at those funerals). I have no knowledge of where he lives or how to contact him, but if ever I do see him again, I will ask about the trucks.

I will think about whether there are any other remaining sources of information, but meanwhile, has anyone consulted the employees of the Lesney company? I know that the company went into receivership in 1982, but did anyone preserve any archives?

With kind regards to you and the forum members,

Philip