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I am not sure how to start this but is anyone else getting upset over the number of "reproductions" of rare models that are being sold through Ebay. What are some of these people thinking paying absurd amounts of money for a car that has been stripped, spray painted, and detailed? Do some of these people think they are actually getting a rare model or do they plan on reselling later? I truly feel sorry for the buyer that is unaware of reproductions. What is stopping some of these people from actually claiming their forgery's as legit models?

Now, don't get me wrong as I have even commissioned some models to be made by one of our own members here on this forum, but they were at a very reasonable price, and for my personal collection. I understand wanting a Beales, Maroon Spyker, or cream & turquoise Vauxhall which I will probably never be able to afford, but to actually pay more than $15 - $25 for a fake is in my opinion crazy!

On the other hand I guess that I am a little jealous of these entrepreneurs that are picking up junk models for pennies on the dollar and turning them around and making a mint. If I had the time and the resources I might consider it myself to get a little extra cash for the real thing.

in the long run do you think this is helping or hurting the business for the legitimate retailer selling authentic models? How do you think it is effecting the value of the real thing?

I don't see any problem provided that the item is clearly described as a reproduction and suitably marked on the base so a future buyer won't be deceived.

Martin

Martin, I agree as long as the base or something is marked or clearly stated, but I am sure not all are actually following that guideline. I guess I am always worried about buying a model only to find out later that I have been cheated. Thanks to the forum's "Trusted Seller" list I have made some nice buys and been warned off of others.

the best way to not get taken...is to know what to look for when seeing a fake as you put it...knowledge is power and buyer beware

There's not much in the way of restored or custom models I could sell for $15 or even $20. For $20 I can sell a very common late '60's model that is nothing more then a simple repaint (no repairs no decals).

Most early models are difficult and expensive) for me to come buy. They are too expensive to buy at most toy shows and too expensive on ebay. I get some from other collectors but they are few and far between these days. It can cost 15 to 20 dollars just to get a beater of a 1950s model.

Spare parts are expensive too. A boat for a Corsair, dogs for a Kennel truck Parts for a Foamite Crash Tender or the parts for a Commer TV van are expensive. These range between 10 to 15 dollars including shipping. Heck, just the plastic hay racks for a common late 60's hay trailer are going to set you back nearly as much as the cost of a boxed model. Just one metal driver is going to chew up the better part of 5 dollars.

The HO accessory parts I buy for some of my customs are very expensive. One package to make my "City of Kent " Mercedes truck costs nearly $20 and then it needs decals too. All of the spare parts and decals made for Matchbox are items I have to import from the UK or Europe (shipping is expensive and can double the cost of an order for a few small parts).

My last order of spare parts arrived in a box that was 4" x 4" x 4" and the cost for the parts and decals was right at $360.00 USD. The shipping alone was nearly $40.00 making the little box a grand total of 400 bucks! I don't even want to restore anything with treads. Replacement treads have become too expensive to use on a restored model.

Decals are expensive too. I make some myself but doing so is pretty time consuming and probably more expensive than buying ready made ones. Good model paint isn't cheap and containers that have been opened have a short shelf life. The average decal costs 5 bucks and they go up from there.

I recently bought a beat up 19d Lotus (with no tires) just to get the driver. I won the model for .99 cents and paid $4.50 in domestic shipping. It was sent in a jiffy bag and arrived with the head broken off the driver. When my restored Lotus is ready (with yet another driver), here's a tally of the expenses involved"
Buying the original beater (cost + shipping).
Buying a new driver.
Buying a second new driver.
Buying the decals.
Buying another model for tires (or buying reproduction tires).
Stripper, Paint & thinner.
Ebay and Paypal fees (about 15% of the total sale price including the shipping cost).

I have to buy boxes and packing materials. I have to maintain an inventory of paints, parts and beater models. I also must have a dedicated work space and a bunch of free time to make the customs and restored models. Time to photograph the finished work and compose and monitor ebay listings.

Maybe if I lived near the old Lesney factories, I could attend boot sales and find lots of beaters on the cheap. But, I don't and so there are no 15 dollar restorations and very few 25 dollar restorations. There is a very small (if any) profit margin in 95% of the models I restore and sell. If you think some us are getting rich selling restored models, that's laughable. We do it because making customs and doing restoration is a hobby in itself.

I cannot see any problem with replica models of htf models provided they are presented as such. If people are selling them for $15 to $25 dollars (roughly £10 to £15) I think that is really good value as I fail to see how that would adequately pay for the customiser's time, never mind the cost of a base model and materials as detailed by Tinman. There are so many beater models in the world that I cannot see it ever affecting the price of say Cougar or Dodge Wrecker beaters.

Obviously, to mislead buyers into believing an item is something which it is not is wrong. However it is an inescapable fact that if anything in this world has a high monetary value then somebody somewhere will fake it. From cigarettes mass produced in underground factories in China to fake Old Masters this world is awash with forgeries of one sort or another.

A couple of uncomfortable truths. Firstly, a rare Matchbox is a very easy thing to fake, much easier than a painting or a handbag, etc. Most rare variations are based on castings which are readily and cheaply available in their thousands, they just happen to be a different colour or have a different decal. Secondly, Matchbox collectors, in common with every other type of collector place a huge (I would say disproportionate) value on factory originality. Collectors, whether they care to admit it or not, create the demand for fakes. I'm not saying that makes faking right though.

To make things even better for a faker, the biggest marketplace is ebay. Now I don't think I am particularly cautious, but to spend a 3 or 4 figure sum of money on an easily faked, physically small item on the strength of 4 or 5 photos on a computer screen shows a gullibility beyond belief. This applies not just to 'new' fakes, I personally wouldn't buy something I knew to be from an old collection believing that it was 100% genuine without being able to physically examine it first.

To answer the original question, no - the number of 'reproductions' doesn't upset me at all, and to be perfectly honest, I don't feel particularly sorry for collectors that part with vast sums of money for fakes either. Buyer should always have the sense to beware!

Tinman wrote:There's not much in the way of restored or custom models I could sell for $15 or even $20. For $20 I can sell a very common late '60's model that is nothing more then a simple repaint (no repairs no decals).

Most early models are difficult and expensive) for me to come buy. They are too expensive to buy at most toy shows and too expensive on ebay. I get some from other collectors but they are few and far between these days. It can cost 15 to 20 dollars just to get a beater of a 1950s model.

Spare parts are expensive too. A boat for a Corsair, dogs for a Kennel truck Parts for a Foamite Crash Tender or the parts for a Commer TV van are expensive. These range between 10 to 15 dollars including shipping. Heck, just the plastic hay racks for a common late 60's hay trailer are going to set you back nearly as much as the cost of a boxed model. Just one metal driver is going to chew up the better part of 5 dollars.

The HO accessory parts I buy for some of my customs are very expensive. One package to make my "City of Kent " Mercedes truck costs nearly $20 and then it needs decals too. All of the spare parts and decals made for Matchbox are items I have to import from the UK or Europe (shipping is expensive and can double the cost of an order for a few small parts).

My last order of spare parts arrived in a box that was 4" x 4" x 4" and the cost for the parts and decals was right at $360.00 USD. The shipping alone was nearly $40.00 making the little box a grand total of 400 bucks! I don't even want to restore anything with treads. Replacement treads have become too expensive to use on a restored model.

Decals are expensive too. I make some myself but doing so is pretty time consuming and probably more expensive than buying ready made ones. Good model paint isn't cheap and containers that have been opened have a short shelf life. The average decal costs 5 bucks and they go up from there.

I recently bought a beat up 19d Lotus (with no tires) just to get the driver. I won the model for .99 cents and paid $4.50 in domestic shipping. It was sent in a jiffy bag and arrived with the head broken off the driver. When my restored Lotus is ready (with yet another driver), here's a tally of the expenses involved"
Buying the original beater (cost + shipping).
Buying a new driver.
Buying a second new driver.
Buying the decals.
Buying another model for tires (or buying reproduction tires).
Stripper, Paint & thinner.
Ebay and Paypal fees (about 15% of the total sale price including the shipping cost).

I have to buy boxes and packing materials. I have to maintain an inventory of paints, parts and beater models. I also must have a dedicated work space and a bunch of free time to make the customs and restored models. Time to photograph the finished work and compose and monitor ebay listings.

Maybe if I lived near the old Lesney factories, I could attend boot sales and find lots of beaters on the cheap. But, I don't and so there are no 15 dollar restorations and very few 25 dollar restorations. There is a very small (if any) profit margin in 95% of the models I restore and sell. If you think some us are getting rich selling restored models, that's laughable. We do it because making customs and doing restoration is a hobby in itself.

I have spent a couple of hours getting customs just right . That time alone is worth more than I can sell them for . Don't worry Joe ,I just made a die for the wrecker hooks. I am looking into making tracks next.