Pre War 28 Series Vans

[starni999]

Hi all,
Sorry not been around too much lately, life just gets mental sometimes.
Anyway, I've been clearing out the Dinky's a bit, anything post 1964 (IE; after Lines Bros took over) is now on the toyfair table, in order to fund the Pre War stuff I really love,
I was VERY lucky this week with the 28's...
How they came...



And whats inside...






Sadly (for me anyway) the guy who sold them from Germany had already moved on the Type 2 Oxo and Ecko Radio vans that he had.

The series is looking OK now,

Type 2's (36 - 39)


All together...



I've no chance of getting all 70 + of these short of a lottery win, but I'm going to try to get as many as I can.
(Don't tell the wife)

Cheers
CW.

[motorman]

Good luck Chris, you are certainly off to a great start mate. Lovely line up, the Osram is in great condition!!

[GHOSTHUNTER]

I also wish you good luck with your quest. A stunning line up of Vans and a shame the darker coloured paints have not survived as well as the lighter colour, in particular the Yellow, these seem to be more resilient, showing far fewer cracks.

GHOSTHUNTER.

[Idris]

...a shame the darker coloured paints have not survived as well as the lighter colour, in particular the Yellow, these seem to be more resilient, showing far fewer cracks.

An interesting observation.
What collectors term "fatigue" is actually caused by lead migrating to crystal boundaries within the casting, thereby causing the metal to swell, resulting in deformation and cracking. (Matters are made worse by moisture which causes the lead to turn to lead oxide which takers up even more room, forcing the crystals even further apart.)
I can't see an obvious route for e.g. lead in the paint to cause fatigue, but it would be interesting to know whether Ghosty's observation still holds true amongst a larger and therefore more representative selection of pre-war Dinky Toys.

[starni999]

Hi all,
The lead found it's way into the casting process by way of good old cost cutting at Meccano where anything metal was melted down to further production. Even (legend has it) lead twist ties from incoming parts sacks were tossed into the mix. The result was damaged castings straight away.
It's long been a belief that damaged pre war castings only came to light in the 60's 70's when collecting got serious, not so, Meccano were having these vans returned to the factory straight away by shops opening trade boxes to find castings already cracking.
Meccano put their own investigation into place, and by chance the problem was sorted just before production ended for the war. The Meccano practice of casting in lots of 10,000 meant that many type 3 vans in the shops for Xmas 39 and into 40 were cast up to a year previously before the problem was solved.
Another common myth is that only the pre war vans had advertising on, not so, at least one, the Type 3 Crawfords van was released post war, as a promo, in effect a 280 red van with pre war type adverts fitted.
Cheers
CW.

[Bernie]

I understand the pull of these toys but I don't touch anything with zinc rot. Depending on your age they may last your lifetime, but it's a guarantee that you're throwing your money into something that will fall apart. Though that's no different than 1:1 cars, those can be restored while there is no cure for zink pest. I recently passed on a rare toy that would have completed a branch of my collection and one that I may never see an example of again. It's a struggle to decide whether to hand over money for something that may last twenty years or less than two.

Since the causes are known, you would think that we would have heard the last of this problem after the post-war metal shortages were over. But manufacturing has moved to China where controls are lax. Several of my 1:43 from the 1990s are turning to dust. I've had five Ertl products go bad and requested a refund but they claim no responsibility for their models once it leaves the factory. There was a big commotion a few years ago in the diecast airplane community over this problem and their pleas for compensation were also rebuked.

Other than that, you seem to have a very nice collection going. I also fancy pre-war models but tend to stick to American brands. Post-war, my main interests run to Sixties Corgi and post 1990 brands.

[RSSierra]

Simply stunning Chris......

[starni999]

Cheers Dave!
Bernie I fully understand your reasons for avoiding Pre War Dinky, there is no sane reason to spend hundreds of pounds on something that will, eventually, drop apart. For me, it's an emotional thing, I consider these to be the finest Dinky Toys, those that were designed while Frank Hornby was still alive. To take care of these during the last few years of their lives is an honour for me.
Pass the superglue....
Chris Warr.

[Bako]

In some ways the potential decay of some of these pre war models makes the remaining examples even rarer and could potentally enhance values in the future. The 30s models also have an added appeal to younger "Art Deco" collector particularly those with advertising.

The supply of 50s to 70s post war models on the other hand is unlikely to decline further as they are no longer being thrown away. The post war models may also become less desirable in future as there will be less people around who still have them in their living childhood memory.

[starni999]

Hi all,

Exciting news here, as I've managed to pick up an original trade box for the 28 series vans. The inner dividers are missing, but I'm more than happy with it.
These were usually thrown away by the shopkeeper, or given away with the last of the 6 vans sold. Not many were sold as sets due to the price. More on that in a bit.



A close examination of the label shows a quality control stamp of M40. M is the persons initial, 40 is 1940. There would normally be another digit, for example 540 would be May 1940, so Meccano seemed to have abandoned the months on the stamp due to total toy production shutdown for war work.



Also interesting is that price of 1/5. That must be for the six, as these were 6d each. Set price was 3/-, so were these being discounted this far into wartime shortages, and lack of money to spend on toys?

Lastly here's a picture with an original 1939 - 40 catalogue..



From the catalogue you can see the 28 number had already been replaced by 280 due to the large amount of vans made, so 28 numbered boxes are strictly pre war, only 280 was used from 1945 on.

BTW, yeah I know I've put the wrong vans in there, by 1940 this box had type 3's in it, but I've only got 4 of them,

Cheers
CW.