57c GPW

[kerbside]

This has now ended on ebay, I was going to bid on it, but noticed that it only had 10 turns on the rear hose. In the variation lists of Nicks, Stannards, and Houghtons, + checking with two collectors who have this model they all say it should have 13 turns on the hose.

Here is the ebay # 261812586666 sold at $aus 610-00 did some one on the forum win it?

George T.

[matchbox_n_molars]

Well George, as you've pointed out, the resources call for the gray wheeled example to have a 13 turn hose. I've got an example with gray plastic wheels that has the 11 turn hose insert. I thought the example on the ebay auction you shared looked pretty darn good and I think this example I've got looks pretty darn good.
Here are photos of my example for the chorus to analyze.















In addition to the hose insert being an 11 turn insert, the other things I've observed on the model that make me pause for a moment are:
1. There is a small bend in the rear axle. How did a model this clean get even a subtle bend in the axle?
2. It seems most 57c models have both domed ends on the same side. The axles on this model are domed on opposite sides.
3. You'll see in the last photo that the rounded end of the rear axle has one tiny little ear of flash that is bent down. In general though, I think these axle ends look pretty darn factory perfect.
In the end, in spite of these observations, I bought the model out of a collection that Bob Neuman was selling up in Chicago. I believe it is authentic. Am I wrong???

Could it be that legitimate gpw examples exist with all three hose inserts? 10, 11 and 13 turns???

[GHOSTHUNTER]

Thanks for the good pictures of what appears to be an original example, but as you point out the axle-end looks suspicious, but! Not all models are 100% good, we know there was a plus or minus percentage of the expected quality of the models made by Lesney. An immaculate model will still pass the quality test and be boxed up, despite maybe having an inferior wheel or axle-end profile. These were toys and kids are not going to throw the model back at Mum or Dad shouting..."that's no bloody good, look at that axle-end, get rid of it, now!".

If the axle is too short the 'Peening' machine can strike the plastic wheel causing minor damage, too long and the axle-end will likely suffer resulting in similar damage to the axle on your example, including bent axles.

I would be very happy to have that model in my collection, providing it did not cost the Earth...!

GHOSTHUNTER.

[brainstrust]

I count 12 turns! Do you count the half turns on both ends or do two half turns make a whole turn?

[mboxmike]

I won won with 11 turns a few months ago. Pictures can be seen in this thread, although after looking at the pics above I need to take clearer ones:

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=3150&p=31614&hilit=57+rover#p31614

[matchbox_n_molars]

Wow mboxmike! I'm glad you posted this. Not only does yours have the 11 roll hose insert but your axles are also like mine where the domed end of the axle is not on the same side for both axles.

And yes braintrust, if you count both of the half turns you'd have 12, but I'm pretty sure this is the base/hose insert that the resources refer to as an 11 turn hose.

So, if the model George saw on ebay with the 10 turn insert is authentic (and it looked pretty convincing to me on the ebay photos) then you can find examples with gray plastic wheels and any of the base/hose inserts.

[kwakers]

If you were to read a Stannards Guide braintrust, he counted only the turns at the top of the hose reel making Greg's an '11'. When viewing the hose turns under a good picture they are very easy to count, but I prefer using a micrometer to measure the inside of the hose reel rather than trying to count 'turns'. The old eyes get confused in counting. The 10 count measures 6.2mm wide, while the 11 turns is 6.5mm wide INSIDE drum measurement. I have not measured our 13 turn variations, but Stannard's diagram of that hose reel measures about 7mm wide, which sounds accurate.
I counted the GPW 57C I have had for 40 years now when this same hose count question was raised on the Forum several months back. Ours has the 13 turns as Mike Stannard had cataloged, but in my experience all three hose count interiors were being used during most of the production life of this Fire Truck. The GPW are still such a rare variation on this Fire Truck, I am sure Mike did not have access to enough of them while researching his Guide in the early 80s. Not that many may have been shipped to the U.S. either, because ours was the first Ray Sytch had ever seen of this variation in 1975.
The early casting BPW Fire Truck without rear brace I found last Fall has 11 turns of hose. Ours also has the small connectors with the even keys on it's interior, while the one pictured at Nick's site with this early non braced body casting has the small connectors with uneven keys, proving at least 2 of the interiors were used right from the beginning of early production on this Fire Truck. kwakers

[Tinman]

Could it be that legitimate gpw examples exist with all three hose inserts? 10, 11 and 13 turns???

I've always thought: Yes!