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I have an opportunity to purchase a reverse painted 13d, BUT its one of the crimped axil version from the 70's. The dealer is telling me that this unauthorized version released from Lesney without their knowledge in 1970 is as rare and sought after as the original. I have seen original 13d1 sell from 7,000.00 to nearly 9,000.00 over the last 18 months on ebay. What is your thoughts on the "holy Grail" 1970's copy?

Please take a look at the topic Motorman started about one being offered on E Bay right now. At their height of popularity the 1969-70 copy with crimped axles were worth 4000. The original 1965s are more valuable and sought after, but your prices are still a bit high for even one of those originals. The originals from 1965 still keep surfacing now and then, while the later one with crimped axles continue to be accurately Faked. Be VERY careful and study what has been discussed on these in the past. kwakers

The other thread is here.
My opinion is that these crimped-axle 13d reverse colour wreckers are nothing more nor less than fakes, unauthorised copies if you will. Some people are happy to pay serious money for them. (I'm not.)

Thank you for all the input. Does anyone feel if authentic there is any value in one of these" from the factory" fakes?
To me the story is interesting and to own an original out the back door fakes might be cool to have. But at what value? I guess that will have to be left up to each. Keep the comments coming.
Thanks everyone.
Barry

Rooster wrote:Thank you for all the input. Does anyone feel if authentic there is any value in one of these" from the factory" fakes?
To me the story is interesting and to own an original out the back door fakes might be cool to have. But at what value? I guess that will have to be left up to each. Keep the comments coming.

I do not rate them as being worth any more than any other fake.

Idris wrote:

Rooster wrote:Thank you for all the input. Does anyone feel if authentic there is any value in one of these" from the factory" fakes?
To me the story is interesting and to own an original out the back door fakes might be cool to have. But at what value? I guess that will have to be left up to each. Keep the comments coming.

I do not rate them as being worth any more than any other fake.

Other fakes are not 100% new components oven baked in precisely the correct shades and crimped on Jack Odell´s R&D crimping machine nor do they have the Joe Stone legend to back them up.I suspect the original owners like Bob Brennan know a lot more about the origins of these than they will tell publicly so its no surprise to me that when they come up for sale they fetch around £1500 each. No home made fakes or customs are worth paying any money for ever imho but lunchbox specials and these christmas 1969 crimped wreckers are worth every penny to those that pay out such sums.

SMS88 wrote:Other fakes are not..........crimped on Jack Odell´s R&D crimping machine...

Pure speculation unsupported by any evidence.

SMS88 wrote:...its no surprise to me that when they come up for sale they fetch around £1500 each.

It always amazes me that people will pay silly money for something that isn't a code 1. (These were, are and always will be fakes.)

SMS88 wrote:...these christmas 1969 crimped wreckers are worth every penny to those that pay out such sums.

Amazing, isn't it?

Idris wrote:

SMS88 wrote:Other fakes are not..........crimped on Jack Odell´s R&D crimping machine...

Pure speculation unsupported by any evidence.

Supported by tinman´s expert opinion when he examined one closely - impossible to tell apart from known genuine Lesney crimps!

SMS88 wrote:

Idris wrote:

SMS88 wrote:Other fakes are not..........crimped on Jack Odell´s R&D crimping machine...

Pure speculation unsupported by any evidence.

Supported by tinman´s expert opinion when he examined one closely - impossible to tell apart from known genuine Lesney crimps!

Then again, my very own new crimping tool (of my own design) makes crimps that most cannot tell apart from Lesney's.

Sounds like there is no for sure way to tell. I have the seller mailing to me with a down pmt for review. I'll get some pics on site next week when I rec. Then we all can discuss. If nothing else should generate some good discussions. Then as a team, I may or may not make an offer. For "ME" it has value to have in my collection a factory fake unauthorized by Lesney going out the back door. That's a pretty cool story. I had never heard before. Thanks again everyone for your input and interest .
B