#23 caravan with windows

[GHOSTHUNTER]

Thank you Dick, I am now having to sit up all night and not go to bed, for fear of dreaming about "Miller" standing in front of me nude, while inspecting a model...

Ghosty.

[daz28]

its been fascinating reading the posts about the Faker/ fraudster. its unbelievable what some people would do.
surly its a crime and should be investigated by the police?.
the fake is worth next to nothing. the original now windowless caravan has a bigger history, its still a prepro and is worth more than the fake. the new owner should copy all the posts and keep it with the model for future reference.

well done on the collective purchase .

[Miller]

Your comments are all heart warming......Except of course:
I really have to say Miller, your German humor with your live drill will now bring me reoccurring nightmares for a bit. Too soon lad, and much too graphic for some of us who watched the results of that first Caravan's rivets and glaze being butchered......
Make sure Miller is nude when he is examining this one Ghosty, take no chances with him...... However, I think Kay (Another German) is O.K. to handle it clothed.... kwakers

Dick, it was not only humour, that led to my posting. I wrote it with a large amount of sarcasm and irony, waiting for reactions. I remember a discussion the last days, that so few Germans participate here in this forum. One can read this forum without being registered and so i did. I was lucky enough not to find threads about "the frauding and faking German" before i registered. Lucky because i shurely wouldn´t have registered and i would have missed a lot of nice people with the same hobby not caring about others nationality.

Whats the problem here?

There is a guy, that frauded and disturbed a unique treasure and i as a collector share the same bad feelings about such a behavour. But tell me - how would you call him, if he would have been an Englischman or an American? Would you call him "the englisch frauder" or the "american window killer?" I guess not! What would you have written, if one of the english or american guys here would have offered his help with a drill? Would you even have mentioned it?

I don´t know Harvey, i never bought from him and i got absolutely no relation to him, i only saw/see his listngs on ebay. I have a 10 wheel diamond prime mover and i found a used one in box in his shop for 1.100 Euro. Nick estimates it with £300+ for a mint example in mint box. This is a huge difference, but as a businessman Harvey should know, how much he can get for such a piece, or he soon would be out of business. If his prices would be way to high, he wouldn´t earn a cent, but as you all say here, he must earn a lot of money. Is that your problem? A man, who knows how to make money? Or is it the german man, who knows how to make money? I feel a lot of hate here and i got the feeling, that its not only about the window caravan and that lately makes me as a German feeling uncomfortable here...

[Tinman]

Nothing on my part is addressed towards any nationality, race or creed. I have no problem calling the a-hole by his name ... Hardy! He has earned my disdain not only over this horrible incident with the Caravan's destruction ...

Not only because of the fake caravan he made and sold as an original Lesney model for 5,500 Pounds ...

Mainly, because of the many other fakes he's sold over the years. He is no businessman, he's a con man and needs to be denounced for the fraud he perpetrates and outrageous amounts he steals from unsuspecting collectors.

I know some have referred to him as "a certain German" with regards to this matter as he is a well known German dealer on this forum (as well as infamous concerning that Caravan) and perhaps they were wanting not to use his actual name. I have NEVER had the feeling or read anything that gave me the feeling that there might be some prevailing prejudice towards German dealers or collectors.

I hope you stay here and continue to participate. You are very welcome here ... as is anyone from any country or nationality. Your English is excellent, you humor is enjoyed and your posts are followed. If I personally have said anything that you find offensive, then I ask your forgiveness and you have my apology.

The solitary actions of one individual should never tarnish a whole nationality or country (please forgive us for what Donald Trump said today).

[GHOSTHUNTER]

Roland, don't leave us so soon, you have proven to us you have slotted in to the forum's discussions and antics quite nicely. Don't let a silly, badly timed comment affect you. From private discussions with "Kwakers" over this Caravan saga, I know what it means to him to have read all the old comments again refreshing the memories of what happened to the White model and the personal relief and excitement he is now experiencing with the news and realization that we have secured the next model from a similar fate and that he was directly involved in it's rescue.

I know you meant no harm with your quick responce and emoticon to the comments about the destruction of the model and as Dick pointed out, it may have come to soon within the thread, we all knew and understood where you was coming from but it clearly affected Dick more than others.

Can we shake hands and carry on as normal, there is a lot more information to be posted about these Caravan models and I want all of us to enjoy it with no further bitterness between anyone.

Ghosthunter.

[Idris]

[I feel a lot of hate here and i got the feeling, that its not only about the window caravan and that lately makes me as a German feeling uncomfortable here...

Having reread the posts, I think you have gained an incorrect impression of what has been written. (Something gained in translation, as it were.) I do not detect any anti-German sentiments (and, if I had, they would have been deleted!), only anti Harvey ones.
it just so happens that Harvey is a very well-known (but no longer respected) German collector - for many on the Forum perhaps the only high-profile German collector they are aware of. This makes it very easy to refer to him (disparagingly) as "that German collector" since everyone immediately knows who is being referred to.
If you have a problem with the wording of any specific post, please PM me the details and I will investigate.
Our watchword when posting on this Forum has to be respect. respect for people's race, creed, colour, nationality and collecting interests. Anything less than that is wholly unacceptable and should not (and, as long as I'm an Admin., will not) be tolerated.

[fixer]

Roland there is no offence ment towards you or Germans only Hardy
It's the same as when that serial faker Nik the Greek is spoken about, it's an easy way for everyone to know who is being referred to

[MatchboxFreak]

Congratulations and thank you to Kwackers, Ghosty and Fixer for collaborating on the joint effort to secure this pre-pro Caravan and avoid the debacle from 2014. Well done!

In the spirit of collaboration, may I suggest we avoid all national epithets? Let's call him Hardy (or whatever name he goes by) and avoid the appearance of painting all with the same brush, whether they be German, Greek, Bulgarian or Hungarian.

And for Roland, yes it may be too soon to talk about drilling in connection with this model. It was a wild Lesney roller coaster in 2013 / 2014 to hear about the discovery of the pre-pro model. We participated with growing excitement as its background was vetted, waited in suspense as the auction reached its end and the cash rose higher only to be plunged into horror when it as purchased by a someone with a very different vision of collecting and history who gutted the original piece. The original metal casting was essentially sold as scrap metal.
Ich weiß es war bloß als Witz gedacht.

[kwakers]

I understand your concerns Miller, but as others have eloquently stated here, "A German Collector" is only a very kind term for Hardy. Some here such as Christian and Kay are seeing Hardy regularly at their European Toy Shows, and it is in fact THEY who originally coined that reference to him, not us Yanks or U.K. members. I picked up that phrase because Hardy still views here, is no longer a Forum member, but I still see and talk to him at least twice a year at our Yank Toy shows and Conventions over here. I have lost all respect for him as a Dealer, but we are collecting the same Lesney Toys, and we are friends with the same veteran collectors worldwide. For that reason, and the fact that he and I have shared some of our very important casting "Finds" over the years, he and I must tolerate each other.
As you look through old Posts from 4-5 years ago you will find a "Fraudster from Florida", one from Maine, "Nick the Greek" as stated above, a Faker from Chile, and many others referred to by their country of origin rather than their E Bay Selling names which could cause Nick serious legal issues if used here publicly. E Bay owns their user names, so that is also at the heart of the issue Miller, not ever any hostility towards race or anyone's country of origin.
If you want to share the agony of my own feelings Roland, Please find an old picture of Nearlymint's Caravan rivets as they were perfectly spun from the Lesney factory, and then the pictures both Tim and Jason had shown us after they in turn bought the empty windowless original Lesney R & D pre-pro. The "Perfect" original factory rivets were drilled out so carelessly, that it essentially ruined the glaze unit by mis-shaping the outside of the holes that are used to secure it into this Trailer casting. That butchery is and was totally inexcusable. If you view the rivets in our latest purchased Caravan, they are not perfectly spun as were the original ones that Hardy destroyed. Ours were hit with a chisel in one particular area as an experiment in not putting enough pressure to crack the plastic glaze, but only to properly secure the window unit in the casting. Hardy may have destroyed the best example of factory spun window rivets that ever existed on these glazed Caravans. Destroying a Historical Lesney artifact is unacceptable in my world Roland, Please talk to Kay some day about what kind of a nutty detailist collector I am in the flesh.
Finally Roland, I DID see the humor in your Drill Cartoon, and I busted your balls over seeing our Caravan only in the Nude one day. No malice or bad intentions here at all, but I am never going to be Politically Correct in life either. I Love Donald Trump for his honesty, and I will vote to make him our U.S. Commander in Chief later this year.
I must apologize for the removal of one of your 21D Posts here Roland which may have caused you concern as it has me. I was not responsible for that, and I took absolutely no offence to your question at all. In fact, I liked your Post after my upstate N.Y. Weather report I gave YellowFoden. My answer to you is still there, but now seems out of place without your original Post just before it...... Back to Bed Now...
Sent by a Politically incorrect Yank named kwakers from my ancient Dell computer at 4 o'clock in the morning from our Cave in upstate New York.

[kwakers]

I missed addressing my friend Kurt's plea for "correctness" and Country censure.
Hardy will always be addressed as "The German", a very polite term after what he did to that Caravan, I will always be The Yank, and Ghosty will always be Ghosty. Also, the United States will always be referred to by me as "The Colonies" when talking to our U.K. members. That is just life as we have shared it for years here now. Why change our successful fun and informal Forum format that we have always enjoyed here? If we have to sensor our Posts now, curb our opinions on topics, and even sensor the NAMES we give FAKERS and FRAUDSTERS, we all lose the varied personalities that we were always free to share here. That would suck! This is just my opinion on that issue, I hope no one is offended by it........LOL kwakers
Also in my opinion, Idris has wasted a whole bunch of Lesney time in reviewing our 23C Posts to find out if anything bad was ever said about "Germans" within it as Miller suggests. It never happened, and it never will with the caliber of International collectors we have online at Nick's......kwakers