Recent additions

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yellowfoden
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Re: Recent additions

Post by yellowfoden »

nearlymint wrote:
johnboy wrote:Very nice Jason, it's a very rare base over apex variation :D
Spot on John, very pleased to add one like this. Strange how the trim is not correct either.J
Hi Jason, (hi John Hope you are keeping well)

When the mask trim was applied to these models they were placed on a level surface and presented to the mask for a quick burst of spray paint. I would say with the position of the base plate(rivet unpressed at front) this body would be sitting higher than normal, hence the lower position of the silver trim for lights and grille.

This is another first time seen for this model and a great find Jason.

Bert
MatchboxFreak
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Re: Recent additions

Post by MatchboxFreak »

My understanding for the 75 Ferrari was that the body was spray painted before assembly. Otherwise, how to account for the painted rivet post and the unpainted base?
That would mean there are at least two errors on this one model
1 spray mask misalignment
2 flipped base casting
3 getting through QC without getting pulled off the line
The odds against 2 errors on one model must be huge. This looks like it might have been some employee’s first day where they let them start with a pile of ‘seconds’ before letting them work with the good stuff! Or maybe a bored employee trying out a variation! ;-)

Great find Jason!

I also have a 75 Ferrari which experienced a similar spray mask misalignment but I’ve never seen the flipped base casting before.
Happy hunting!
Kurt
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Tinman
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Re: Recent additions

Post by Tinman »

I remember someone describing the Mask spray stations. The mask was unique to each model and the operator held the model up to the mask by hand and operated a foot pedal to activate the spray. The duration of the spray application was controlled by the operator as was the positioning of the model in the contoured mask. Clogged spray nozzles could effect the spray as well as the operators alignment and duration of paint application. Unknown is how often the masks were cleaned and/or replaced as paint build-up had to be an ongoing problem. We know the masks were redesigned multiple times on some models and that may have had more to do with efficacy and ease/simplicity of use than anything else. There would be little reason to change the amount or areas of the silver spray detailing for cost reasons as more paint ended up on the inside of the mask that ever ended up on a model. The only reason to change the shape or areas detailed would be to make the mask easier or simpler to use with regard to getting the casting quickly aligned.

The other question is was the model fully assembled or had the base yet to be installed. Which (if any) models have parts of the base with mask spray on them? Such as front or rear bumpers that are a part of the base not the body.
It might be time to start my "Bucket List."
yellowfoden
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Location: Aust

Re: Recent additions

Post by yellowfoden »

MatchboxFreak wrote:My understanding for the 75 Ferrari was that the body was spray painted before assembly. Otherwise, how to account for the painted rivet post and the unpainted base?
Hello Kurt, Hope you are keeping out of harms way in your part of USA.
I am not sure if your reference to the body paint was from my post.
You are correct in that the painting of the body was done before assembly but my comment was with regard to the silver mask spray and how the body of the model is presented to the mask.
The painting of the body was an early stage of the manufacture process.
The mask spray was almost the last function to be performed before going into the box.

Keep safe

Bert
yellowfoden
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Re: Recent additions

Post by yellowfoden »

Tinman wrote:I remember someone describing the Mask spray stations. The mask was unique to each model and the operator held the model up to the mask by hand and operated a foot pedal to activate the spray. The duration of the spray application was controlled by the operator as was the positioning of the model in the contoured mask. Clogged spray nozzles could effect the spray as well as the operators alignment and duration of paint application. Unknown is how often the masks were cleaned and/or replaced as paint build-up had to be an ongoing problem. We know the masks were redesigned multiple times on some models and that may have had more to do with efficacy and ease/simplicity of use than anything else. There would be little reason to change the amount or areas of the silver spray detailing for cost reasons as more paint ended up on the inside of the mask that ever ended up on a model. The only reason to change the shape or areas detailed would be to make the mask easier or simpler to use with regard to getting the casting quickly aligned.

The other question is was the model fully assembled or had the base yet to be installed. Which (if any) models have parts of the base with mask spray on them? Such as front or rear bumpers that are a part of the base not the body.
Joe, hope all is good in Florida.

You are right in saying that there were more than one type of mask spray method and I am also aware of some trials of mask spraying that did not go ahead.
From at least the early sixties the following applies.
With respect to many models in my collection the mask spraying was done on fully assembled models including decals and I have many models where the overspray is on the base plate and wheels.
Although I am aware the foot pedal was used in areas like riveting machines, pressing on spare wheels and hook pins and rivets I had not heard about it being used for mask spray booths.

The mask spray booth actually had a sensor on it for a timed release of spray paint and the purpose of this was to prevent the operator applying too much paint. They could however present the model to the mask a second time or multiple times but each time it would still only give a preset burst.

Quote” This machine has a semi-electronic mechanism that ensures that only a specific amount of paint is deposited whether the operator holds the model against the orifice for one second or one minute”

They would take a completed model out of a tray, place it against the mask, it would be sprayed for a preset time and they would place it on the conveyor ready for boxing.
This was all done in seconds

Incidentally if the lady presenting the model to the mask did not have it sitting on the flat surface in front of the mask this could also account for misalignment.

One such trial in an attempt to improve efficiency was they produced a small curbed roadway and if the model was pushed one way it would trigger a spray of silver paint through two apertures in a photo slide then if pushed the other way the model would receive red paint. However it could become paint bound and there is no evidence it was actually used for true production runs.

On the subject of mask spraying Corgi at one point used a different method where the lady would hold the model behind the mask and using a hand held spray gun, she would spray toward the mask and the exposed parts of the model would be painted. This method would account for different levels of trim with fatigue and distractions creeping into the equation.

Joe wrote
Which (if any) models have parts of the base with mask spray on them? Such as front or rear bumpers that are a part of the base not the body.

In answer to your question above some models that come to mind.
65a Jaguar is a nice early one with mask spray bumper to black base plate
3b Bedford tipper can have mask silver to tongue of black base plate.
9c fire engine can also have silver tongue on black base plate
Other examples of the tongue on black base plates getting a coat of mask silver are 34a VW, 47b Icecream, 26b Foden cement and 45a Vauxhall with glazing.

All the best
Bert



If Jason or admin think this should be in its own thread can admin attend to this please.
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Tinman
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Re: Recent additions

Post by Tinman »

yellowfoden wrote:The mask spray booth actually had a sensor on it for a timed release of spray paint and the purpose of this was to prevent the operator applying too much paint. They could however present the model to the mask a second time or multiple times but each time it would still only give a preset burst. "This machine has a semi-electronic mechanism that ensures that only a specific amount of paint is deposited whether the operator holds the model against the orifice for one second or one minute”
This makes more sense to me than a foot pedal and I wondered about that. Perhaps that was something that was tried at first and quickly given up for obvious reasons.
yellowfoden wrote:Incidentally if the lady presenting the model to the mask did not have it sitting on the flat surface in front of the mask this could also account for misalignment.
I don't recall a "flat surface" being mentioned for assist in putting the model up to the mask. However, seems like a good and a bad idea all at the same time. A bad idea because of the amount of different wheel sizes that can be involved on a single specific casting. Then there is having to calculate the increased or reduced height of different models when producing a mask.
yellowfoden wrote:On the subject of mask spraying Corgi at one point used a different method where the lady would hold the model behind the mask and using a hand held spray gun, she would spray toward the mask and the exposed parts of the model would be painted. This method would account for different levels of trim with fatigue and distractions creeping into the equation.
That method seems like a fail for many reasons, not the least of which is how slow the process would be. I've done a mask spray on some of my restorations and it's a real pain in the ass.
yellowfoden wrote:In answer to your question above some models that come to mind.
65a Jaguar is a nice early one with mask spray bumper to black base plate
3b Bedford tipper can have mask silver to tongue of black base plate.
9c fire engine can also have silver tongue on black base plate
Other examples of the tongue on black base plates getting a coat of mask silver are 34a VW, 47b Icecream, 26b Foden cement and 45a Vauxhall with glazing.
The only one I could think of off hand was the 65a, thanks for adding the others!
It might be time to start my "Bucket List."
GHOSTHUNTER
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Re: Recent additions

Post by GHOSTHUNTER »

Image
Image

Both pictures of hand controlled mask spraying at Mecanno for their Dinky Toys.

I have looked in my files for similar pictures from Lesney but sadly do not have any.
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nearlymint
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Re: Recent additions

Post by nearlymint »

Thank you all for the comments and the excellent information about the trim addition.
J
Nearlymint
Check my swaps page(rest has been under construction for years :))
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nearlymint
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Re: Recent additions

Post by nearlymint »

Picked up this cracking VW 1500 wheel error which was listed as a missing hub cab, the wheel is a 9x36(space saver) and in great condition as well.
MB15
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MB15 wheel error.JPG (58.62 KiB) Viewed 1712 times
J
Nearlymint
Check my swaps page(rest has been under construction for years :))
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GHOSTHUNTER
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Re: Recent additions

Post by GHOSTHUNTER »

WOW! you do find em 'J', great factory error.

Ghosty.
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