30c Faun 8-Wheeled Crane

[DrJeep]

It looks to me as if the model has been put into a bench vice upside down and squashed

Top and bottom views - do these help? From above, we can see how the wheel arches flare out round all the rear 3 axles. From below, the paint is even and the flare looks like a casting to me.

[DrJeep]

This text is on my Nick code 2 and drjeep code 3 so it is possible that it may well appear on codes either side of this also.
Bert

Just visible on my early code 1 model too, though I think only on the front two axles.

[GHOSTHUNTER]

Actually the extra picture did not help and I still think your earlier picture is better and I have reposted it here with Red highlights over the area that to me look flat, a flatter profile compared to the rest of the edge profile on the arch.



I have a NO BRACE model but is impossibly difficult to retrieve at the moment but itching to find it and bring it here.

Ghosthunter.

[Idris]

Glenn, could you please get a pair of vernier callipers and measure the model's width across the flared mudguards and then compare the measurement to the width across the mudguards on a standard 'no brace' example? (If there is no difference, this would seem to support Ghosty's idea of the model having been squeezed in a bench vice. If there is a difference, it would support the flared modguards being an earlier and distinct casting.)

[DrJeep]

Actually the extra picture did not help and I still think your earlier picture is better and I have reposted it here with Red highlights over the area that to me look flat, a flatter profile compared to the rest of the edge profile on the arch.
Ghosthunter.

I think that's exactly the point; the area you've highlighted is flat, and then the arches flare out below it. But being flat is not the same as being squashed flat! Take another look at the picture from beneath; there's no sign that the metal has been squeezed because it would have to go somewhere, and there would be ripples. Also, there's a neat angled part between the flat part and the flared part. You could make a tool to do this, but it's not the parallel jaws of a vice. And remember Antonin has one with the same thicker arch too.

Having said that, I think you've hit on the solution, even if by accident! Hugh's right to suggest measuring this and another 30c. I can't vouch for the accuracy of my cheap callipers but they are consistent. So here goes. Two measurements for each point: the first is the braceless 30c and the second is the final version with tow guide.

Screen Shot 2018-02-03 at 21.18.41.png (36.94 KiB) Viewed 2246 times

What we see here is - to the precision of the calliper - that the later 30c is completely parallel. The early one's arches taper both front and rear (see the measurements at the back of the cab and between axles 3 and 4), with flared sections at the base of the wheel arches. The difference is around half a millimetre. I think that what's happened is that the mould has been modified to add metal to the wheel arches along the whole length (it's easier to make moulds bigger than smaller). I wouldn't have worked this out without your question!

Now you might say that squashing the 30c in a vice would have the same effect. Well, to do this you'd have to squash it along the whole length perfectly, which would surely leave marks (there aren't any) and leave ripples in the metal and the paint. And a normal vice wouldn't create the angled transitions to the flared arches, or the fine moulding lines that come down from the arches towards the flares. There would also need to be a reason to do this, and I don't know what that would be.

If you're still not convinced, I'll have to bring it to a toy fair at some point! My honest opinion is that this is part of the casting and that this is a very early model.

Now, what about asking Antonin why he says his dull orange jibbed model is a prepro?

[GHOSTHUNTER]

Thank's Glen, I think we have sorted a few pieces of the jigsaw out and by coming uo with possibilities and different members' views, we can often get to an agreeable answer.

The fact that Two examples from different sources are enough at the moment to satisfy me/us. What would be good now is if Antonin did the same measurements at the same reference points and then compare the figures.

Going back to the bench vice idea. it would not be possible to get models in exactly the same place in the vice's jaws and then apply the exact amount of pressure, unles both models were done by the same person who was also able to measure the amount of pressure he was appling and for this to happen...it would have to have been done at Lesney. Case closed on the vice idea!

Well I hope I can do the next available NEC Birmingham toy fair so perhaps we will get together. Reminders when it gets nearer.

Ghosthunter.

[Diecast]

Now, what about asking Antonin why he says his dull orange jibbed model is a prepro?

I think that the model with dull orange jib is a Pre-Pro model, because the dull orange painting is not so common, it was used for short time by 15b, 16b, 26b. I have seen a lot of the 30c models with different shades of the orange painting but no one was really dull orange, with one exception, my model without rear brace (to tell the truth it was Nick´s model). There is also one Pre-Pro model is with a grey jib, it seems that there were tests to match jib painting to the body.
Antonin

[Diecast]

I am enclosing a comparison. The first model is without rear brace and with thin arch.

[Diecast]

the second one is a later model with rear brace and a thick arch
Antonin

[DrJeep]

Going back to the bench vice idea. it would not be possible to get models in exactly the same place in the vice's jaws and then apply the exact amount of pressure, unles both models were done by the same person who was also able to measure the amount of pressure he was appling

I'm tempted to get a really bad 30c and find out what happens when it's squeezed in a vice - I think something might break! But mine is odd - perhaps something has happened to it either in or after the factory.

I think that the model with dull orange jib is a Pre-Pro model, because the dull orange painting is not so common,

Thanks! It's a pity mine is without its jib.

There is also one Pre-Pro model is with a grey jib, it seems that there were tests to match jib painting to the body.

Is that the one at the back here? I think it's a colour trial on a later casting with the rear brace (perhaps Dave / Mokosex could confirm?)

Well I hope I can do the next available NEC Birmingham toy fair so perhaps we will get together. Reminders when it gets nearer.

11 February and 29 April. I definitely can't make 11 February but 29 April might be possible.