Newbie with unusual TR7

[SMS88]

...if genuine...

If...

If you want to know its value send it to VECTIS for auction as a pre-pro sample - they will accept it because as I have said, it is consistent with Corgi practices

Without any provenance whatsoever? More important is whether any Corgi collector (apart from SMS88) would be prepared to accept it in the complete absence of any history. So what do the Forum's other Corgi collectors think of this model? Is it a genuine pre-pro, something painted by a hobbyist, or is the jury still out?

I have 3 Corgi factory colour trials and 2 pre-pros in my collection and handled at least a dozen more as well as reading about them and following them online - folks like me who collect them know what to look for. It is a genuine handmade pre-pro almost certainly the one sent to BL for approval and likely to have come not a million miles from Canley or the south coast - south west pensioner belt

[birdy]

Sent an email in the hope of making contact with Mr Harris Mann designer of TR7 in his late 70 s now but still supposedly doing some lecturing at Coventry Uni he is also Honourary president of tr7 owners club.If model was painted inside as a means to get approval for production I would imagine it would have a fair value to both diecsat collectors and TR7 owners alike - not even sure I would want to sell it I have become quite attached it would prob have to be 4 figures to persuade me,thing is majority of my die casts now live in loft but sure this will not follow suit I will find it a spot.

[Idris]

It is…almost certainly the one sent to BL for approval …

Pure, unadulterated speculation (for a change).

What do the Forum's other (i.e. people who do not post under the name SMS88) Corgi collectors think of this model? Is it a genuine pre-pro, something painted by a hobbyist, or is the jury still out?

[cOO7rgi]

I want to mention here the previously mentioned notion of Corgi verses Dinky in launching a TR7 model. Upto the point of the Corgi Juniors version being introduced, they had very few previous Triumph models in their ranges, Dinky however had several and its possible their License was still valid allowing them to make a regular size model leaving Corgi only able to make a smaller version, so one was added to the 'JUNIORS' range.

GHOSTHUNTER.

I don't think this was the way it worked back then. This whole licencing thing started later, until then they just made what they thought would sell well, and the car companies gave their approval quite easily (with the possible exception of Rolls-Royce) without getting any fees for the use of their trademarks. It was not like today that you got a licence for a 1:43 model only, and another for the 3-inch version, and have to pay the car maker for doing so.
E.g. both Dinky and Corgi had made the Triumph Herald earlier and in the 70's both produced the Rover SD1 and Jaguar XJ coupé in 1:35/36; Corgi and Matchbox both made the SD1 or Lotus Europa in small scale etc. I guess it was just common sense that Corgi only did the Juniors version, as Dinky had collaborated with Triumph and had their model out already but didn't make 3-inch models (anymore), and Matchbox did not release a TR7 either. But maybe Triumph was more difficult to work with - it is quite surprising that neither of the well-known models TR4/5/6 or Stag were made by Matchbox/Corgi/Dinky at the time (as far as I know).

It is…almost certainly the one sent to BL for approval …

Pure, unadulterated speculation (for a change).

What do the Forum's other (i.e. people who do not post under the name SMS88) Corgi collectors think of this model? Is it a genuine pre-pro, something painted by a hobbyist, or is the jury still out?

I've said before already that I am sceptical regarding the painted interior although I can imagine that the screws on this example are authentic. We don't know how many prepros exist of this variation, we only have the information in the book that 250 were made. But who knows if this is correct? The other info regarding this promo ("Promotional model for British Leyland at product launch of real car.") proved to be incorrect, so maybe there wasn't even a 250-model run but only a few prepros for a planned promotional that was cancelled? Or maybe the complete run of 250 were screwed together as maybe the first examples got scratches in their gold-plating (which is only a few 1/1000th mm thick, much less than normal paint) when put in the riveting machine, and it was decided that the remaining examples should be screwed instead of riveted. This if of course pure speculation from my side.

I would open the model carefully - we haven't yet seen the interior properly, we don't even know if the paint is supposed to look like the "tartan contrasting interior". Maybe it was just a worker with greasy fingers which caused plastic discolouration ...

I think that the painted seats were done at a later time, not by a Corgi modelmaker, not for the approval of British Leyland.
Prepros are made to show how the finished product will look like. So if you have a chunk of wood or resin, you paint details like windows, lights, grille, bumpers, make hand-drawn labels, when you know that these parts will be either separate pieces or will be painted or tampoprinted on a production example. You do not paint details that will not be on the finished product, except when in the planning stage you are still thinking that the finished model will show those details. It's not realistic that 250 Juniors models would get a treatment of hand-painted seat patterns - it would be possible if the seats were separate parts (like the Corgi 1:36 Ferrari 308) that the prepro would show hand-painted seats to simulate the different moulded parts used later.
But I have yet to see one Corgi prepro (especially a Junior but this also applies to the large scale) where Corgi modelmakers have detailed the interior similar to Birdy's TR7. The prepro examples in the Great Book do not have any interior detailing, except for the Mercedes W196 racing car (in the photo with the Marlboro Lancia Stratos) - but here the tartan seat pattern was obviously added with the thought that a production example would be decorated (decalled/tampoprinted) similarly. And this proposed W196 was an open car in the large scale, not a closed Juniors where you can't see much of the interior anyway.

[SMS88]

I want to mention here the previously mentioned notion of Corgi verses Dinky in launching a TR7 model. Upto the point of the Corgi Juniors version being introduced, they had very few previous Triumph models in their ranges, Dinky however had several and its possible their License was still valid allowing them to make a regular size model leaving Corgi only able to make a smaller version, so one was added to the 'JUNIORS' range.

GHOSTHUNTER.

I don't think this was the way it worked back then. This whole licencing thing started later, until then they just made what they thought would sell well, and the car companies gave their approval quite easily (with the possible exception of Rolls-Royce) without getting any fees for the use of their trademarks. It was not like today that you got a licence for a 1:43 model only, and another for the 3-inch version, and have to pay the car maker for doing so.
E.g. both Dinky and Corgi had made the Triumph Herald earlier and in the 70's both produced the Rover SD1 and Jaguar XJ coupé in 1:35/36; Corgi and Matchbox both made the SD1 or Lotus Europa in small scale etc. I guess it was just common sense that Corgi only did the Juniors version, as Dinky had collaborated with Triumph and had their model out already but didn't make 3-inch models (anymore), and Matchbox did not release a TR7 either. But maybe Triumph was more difficult to work with - it is quite surprising that neither of the well-known models TR4/5/6 or Stag were made by Matchbox/Corgi/Dinky at the time (as far as I know).

It is…almost certainly the one sent to BL for approval …

Pure, unadulterated speculation (for a change).

What do the Forum's other (i.e. people who do not post under the name SMS88) Corgi collectors think of this model? Is it a genuine pre-pro, something painted by a hobbyist, or is the jury still out?

I've said before already that I am sceptical regarding the painted interior although I can imagine that the screws on this example are authentic. We don't know how many prepros exist of this variation, we only have the information in the book that 250 were made. But who knows if this is correct? The other info regarding this promo ("Promotional model for British Leyland at product launch of real car.") proved to be incorrect, so maybe there wasn't even a 250-model run but only a few prepros for a planned promotional that was cancelled? Or maybe the complete run of 250 were screwed together as maybe the first examples got scratches in their gold-plating (which is only a few 1/1000th mm thick, much less than normal paint) when put in the riveting machine, and it was decided that the remaining examples should be screwed instead of riveted. This if of course pure speculation from my side.

I would open the model carefully - we haven't yet seen the interior properly, we don't even know if the paint is supposed to look like the "tartan contrasting interior". Maybe it was just a worker with greasy fingers which caused plastic discolouration ...

I think that the painted seats were done at a later time, not by a Corgi modelmaker, not for the approval of British Leyland.
Prepros are made to show how the finished product will look like. So if you have a chunk of wood or resin, you paint details like windows, lights, grille, bumpers, make hand-drawn labels, when you know that these parts will be either separate pieces or will be painted or tampoprinted on a production example. You do not paint details that will not be on the finished product, except when in the planning stage you are still thinking that the finished model will show those details. It's not realistic that 250 Juniors models would get a treatment of hand-painted seat patterns - it would be possible if the seats were separate parts (like the Corgi 1:36 Ferrari 308) that the prepro would show hand-painted seats to simulate the different moulded parts used later.
But I have yet to see one Corgi prepro (especially a Junior but this also applies to the large scale) where Corgi modelmakers have detailed the interior similar to Birdy's TR7. The prepro examples in the Great Book do not have any interior detailing, except for the Mercedes W196 racing car (in the photo with the Marlboro Lancia Stratos) - but here the tartan seat pattern was obviously added with the thought that a production example would be decorated (decalled/tampoprinted) similarly. And this proposed W196 was an open car in the large scale, not a closed Juniors where you can't see much of the interior anyway.

Corgi is known for having made special detailed presentation models in quantities as low as one - if not a pre-pro for a small run it could actually be one of a very small handmade run for senior BL managers - as I said before, the reason being the victory over government policy dumping Speke and moving to Canley
Dinky made special colour issues of their Herald and 2000 models for Triumph in the 1960s - its possible the metallic blue green TR7s with their unique box were made for the overseas dealers or UK dealers to distribute - my example is mint unboxed and came from Germany. Dinky did NOT as fas I know make any special colour versions of their late 1960s fwd Triumph 1300

[Idris]

...it could actually be one of a very small handmade run for senior BL managers...

Speculation, speculation, speculation.
It could equally well be (and more probably is) something knocked up by a private individual using a couple of pots of Humbrol.

[birdy]

Just had yet another look at the interior shining a strong light and again it surprises me how fantastic the finish is of the paint ,not even the slightest hint of smudging as though all parts are separate and were painted or coloured separately .why would a collector go to such extent to paint certainly in recent years as it would be like painting an antique clock in emulsion to tidy it up.The seats give the impression of being 2 tone leather caramel on seat and back pad and lighter fudge colour on bolsters and headrests,very difficult to see but I think even the door cards mirror the seat colour mainly dark caramel with a fudge capping.Gold plating has no scratches or missing plate but under magnification some very slight roughness is evident as though the castings were not flaw free before plating ,When looking through the small gaps and under wheel arches it seems the base colour of the interior plastic is a yellowy beige .screws and washers that appear very bright along with the central mounting screw that has a spacer tube I suspect all these are gold plated and don't appear to have been tampered with.Wasnt the 250 edition white interior with a bronze tinted window glass component yet this has a black/smoked tinted glass .

[birdy]

Just had an email from a Michelle Trotter at vectis asking that I send some images ,a mammoth task in itself to a non tech like me especially working from this minute I pad ,it may have to wait untill I get my more user friendly laptop back and maybe my sone to assist in taking pics and sending those pics via emails to vectis.

[birdy]

Re the laptop I can only convey what the repair man tells me .laptop kept going slow and hanging and gave a message that a serious fault was evident and to back everything up. Took to repair man whe tests and says yes needs new hard drive I will clone everything over to new HDD ,he tried to do this but constantly computer crashed mid cloning .He said he would have to get recovery discs from Lenovo to enable him to re install windows 8 and then attempt cloning but that even that could fail leaving me with an empty laptop and having to start anew .He estimated recovery discs could well be £50/£60 and was surprised when Lenovo offered them for £30 they are now en route from somewhere overseas "within 14 days" jeez

[Idris]

Just had an email from a Michelle Trotter at vectis asking that I send some images ,a mammoth task in itself to a non tech like me especially working from this minute I pad ,it may have to wait untill I get my more user friendly laptop back and maybe my sone to assist in taking pics and sending those pics via emails to vectis.

Since no other Corgi expert seems prepared to support Mick’s speculative claims regarding this model, and the complete absence of any history and/or provenance I would strongly suggest that you exercise extreme caution in what you claim regarding this model in your communications with Vectis.