65b Jaguar 3.8 litre Saloon

[nearlymint]

Hi Jason
I'd foreseen the start of BPW ø9,5x20 in early 1963, what do you think? But the 65b Jag was in the early 1962.
Antonin

Hi Antonin,
Yes that would fit in with other models, not sure why this early casting is fitted with unlisted BPW maybe it was for a special display?
Model came from the Netherlands I will contact the seller and see if they have any back ground info on the models.
Seem strange that the 2 models that came together were oposite ends of the variation table.
J

[kwakers]

These same 9.5X20 BPW wheels were used in limited production on the very early 14C Ambulances also. The official release date on the 14C was in May of 1962 as a replacement for the 14B, but the first 65B castings may have been in the prototype shops in January to have a few of these put on them to see their different 'look'. The 6B Dump Truck had Black plastic wheels 2 years earlier, so why Lesney even had unrealistic gray and also silver tires has always been a question I have had since I bought them to place on our train and racing sets in the mid 1960s. kwakers

[Diecast]

Thanks Dick for your precise dating of the BPW. Now I must correct my opinion, Jason's model is really very early variation (only no badge is strange for me)
Antonin

[nearlymint]

Thanks Dick for your precise dating of the BPW. Now I must correct my opinion, Jason's model is really very early variation (only no badge is strange for me)
Antonin

Hi Antonin,
This model does have the grille badge, that was the other model without badge.
Regards Jason

[Diecast]

Thanks Jason, now it seems to be clear for me, your nice variation should be dated between my dark blue Jag and before variation with GPW ø9,5x20.
Antonin

[yellowfoden]

I note that Nick mentions in his 65b description and in the variation table at code 7 an 11 x 45 tread GPW. In looking closely at the distance of the wheel opening of this model I feel this would not quite fit without binding. I know this gpw size was fitted to some vehicles but have never seen one over the years on the 65b.
I see Antonin does not show it amongst his variations.

Can anyone tell me if this variation is in their collection please.

Regards
Bert

[fixer]

And that is not all. One model has SPW ø9x24..... very strange....

i also have one with 9 x 24 spw but mine is gloss red

[kerbside]

Hello Bert, (yellowfoden) the model with 11mm wheel would not bind, I have a 11 x 36 tread GP Wheels as shown below.





The BPW 10 x 36 and the GPW 11 x 36.



I see there was no comment on this variation as the short grille and painted out badge is only listed on the BPW model.

But here it is on a SPW model





George T.

[yellowfoden]

Hello Bert, (yellowfoden) the model with 11mm wheel would not bind, I have a 11 x 36 tread GP Wheels as shown below.
The BPW 10 x 36 and the GPW 11 x 36.
I see there was no comment on this variation as the short grille and painted out badge is only listed on the BPW model.
But here it is on a SPW model
George T.

Hello George,
Thanks for adding extra images, nice and clear.
My understanding is that all the 36 tread count are 10mm on the 65b . Lesney did not make a bpw or gpw of 11 x 36 size.
I made a comment on the grill sizes in response to your post in the casting show as you mention gpw as being unlisted. I thought I would post a pic of the short grill as I could not see one anywhere else when the 65b has been discussed in the casting shows or nor one shown on Nicks site. Also in response to Joe suggesting more views would be welcome some weeks ago.

Both the grills you show are actually M. Stannard type A long grill as the badge is visible on each, I think it is the silver trim that makes the one on the right look short and the one on the left the badge is painted over with silver trim.
Michael Stannard (grill B code 6) identifies the short grill as being where the badge has been covered by metal as a result of die wear, not to be confused by silver paint covering the badge.

Your spw versions you show already appear in the variation table, perhaps that is why others have not commented

I can not quite see from your bpw model pictures which grill this is you have.

I have adjusted the angle slightly on your spw picture and cropped to show the grills are the same long size on your spw models.

Also attached is another picture of different bpw model that also shows short grill as shown in Stannard and described by Nick and shows the critical area between engine bay opening and top of grill and NO badge.

So back to my original post I would suggest that Nicks code 7 gpw 11 x 45 is incorrect and should be gpw 10 x 36, hence the binding of wheel on fender comment.

Hope that clarifies.
Regards
Bert

[Idris]

That change in the trim pattern on the long grille version is very similar to that noted earlier on the 47a.