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matchboxrw wrote:I have a 2 line green Pickford. After reading all of this, I have taken it out of my collection and put it on the shelf. I remember buying the piece about 20 years ago. In the South East U.S. there is basically no toy shows. Back then I would attend a train show that would come around about once a year. It was a great day. In fact, the best single day of my Matchbox hobby. I would always make a fast trip around to see if anything stuck out and then I would go back through and take my time. I got to maybe the 3rd table and I saw a wooden Coke crate (standing on end that held 24 bottles) about 2 tables over. I flew around to that booth. They guy had 32 mint (minty 9+) pices. I started grabbing them and putting them in front of me. I picked up a 5C Players Please bus, a #68B Merceds green, and in that lot I found the 2 line Pickford. I asked the guy how much he wanted and he said $10 each. There were two or three other guys there by now looking at my pile. I looked at them like I would tear their arm off if they touched one piece. It was funny, I only had $300 in cash on me and my check book was in the car. I handed the guy the cash and told him that I needed to go to my car to get my check book and asked him to put the cars out of the reach of the other guys. I ran as fast as I could and got back to the table in a flash. I started writing the check and I started feeling guilty. I was taking advantage of the guy. So I told him that they are worth a lot more than $10 each. He smiled and said, I have already made my money back on the collection, he said...write the check. I did, smiling from ear to ear. I took them to the car and put them in the seat next to me. I actually patted them going down the road. It was a great day.

Now though it seems like I might have bought a fake. I have another piece that I bought about 15 years ago that I think might also be a fake and I am going to pull it out. Thanks for all of the opinions and thoughts on this! We need to keep our hobby honest!




Steve

Steve, after I read all the post maybe it's fake and maybe not. BTW what a great story thanks for sharing So whats the other piece...

I would not pull that 2 line Pickford Van off your shelf Matchboxrw, I would share more of the details of it's variation here as SCM has asked us to do. You ARE keeping our hobby honest by relating your first hand story here to add to Antonin's on his purchase of this same variation. You did not pay any premium for yours, so it was just sold as a stock Lesney model that may have even been displayed on a train layout with the others you picked out (unless the Seller told you otherwise that day). If you think carefully about what was going on in your life, job, etc. at the time of that show, you may find it has been with you more than 20 years. I am always being corrected by my wife as to more time having passed then I remember. She relates time with how old our 3 boys were, who we were with at the time, etc. Her dates and times always prove my estimates to be not long ago enough on most incidents that have happened in our lives.
Both the AIM and NAMC Guides of the early 70s only list the blue 2 line Pickford decaled Vans in them. Both Harold and Bob had 2 different wheel variations of those 2 line blue Vans in their collections. They both simply called the wheels either small light gray knobby wheels, or large light gray knobby wheels. Neither of them list the 2 line blue SPW version as Mike Stannard did later in 1985. Bob of NAMC appears not to have known the 2 line decals were a promotional in 1971, but by 1976 Harold in his Aim catalog was able to mention that fact.
As we gather more information on these green 2 line Pickfords, who knows what other surprises we may find.
One more thought on your above statement Mick on the change from blue to the green color on these Pickford Vans. If all the Brits were familiar with only the Blue Pickfords corporate colors, why did Lesney switch to this very unrealistic green and continue to sell them as Pickfords Moving Vans? The suggestion of a green trial promotional that you call absurd, is dwarfed by the fact that Lesney flooded the world markets with thousands of improper green Pickford Vans that still used their name on them. That fact seems a lot more absurd than a possible failed attempt at Lesney to sell Pickfords 100 more promotional models in their 'New' green color.......I have to admit I missed that point when I read your Post this A.M. Mick. kwakers

matchboxrw wrote:I have a 2 line green Pickford. After reading all of this, I have taken it out of my collection and put it on the shelf. I remember buying the piece about 20 years ago. In the South East U.S. there is basically no toy shows. Back then I would attend a train show that would come around about once a year. It was a great day. In fact, the best single day of my Matchbox hobby. I would always make a fast trip around to see if anything stuck out and then I would go back through and take my time. I got to maybe the 3rd table and I saw a wooden Coke crate (standing on end that held 24 bottles) about 2 tables over. I flew around to that booth. They guy had 32 mint (minty 9+) pices. I started grabbing them and putting them in front of me. I picked up a 5C Players Please bus, a #68B Merceds green, and in that lot I found the 2 line Pickford. I asked the guy how much he wanted and he said $10 each. There were two or three other guys there by now looking at my pile. I looked at them like I would tear their arm off if they touched one piece. It was funny, I only had $300 in cash on me and my check book was in the car. I handed the guy the cash and told him that I needed to go to my car to get my check book and asked him to put the cars out of the reach of the other guys. I ran as fast as I could and got back to the table in a flash. I started writing the check and I started feeling guilty. I was taking advantage of the guy. So I told him that they are worth a lot more than $10 each. He smiled and said, I have already made my money back on the collection, he said...write the check. I did, smiling from ear to ear. I took them to the car and put them in the seat next to me. I actually patted them going down the road. It was a great day.

Now though it seems like I might have bought a fake. I have another piece that I bought about 15 years ago that I think might also be a fake and I am going to pull it out. Thanks for all of the opinions and thoughts on this! We need to keep our hobby honest!

Steve

5c Players Please isnt hard to find playworn here so I have no doubt a large number were made by Lesney regardless of any aftermarket customs. It sounds like your seller certainly acted honestly charging you the exact same price as a standard green 46b would be worth which means no faking involved (no deceit) however it could well be a custom from the collection of a dead or bankrupt collector sold by a dealer.California -wonder if it was Tinman´s old online adversary Steve the Junkman who openly sold Lesney customs in California for 20 years AND DID HAVE ACCESS TO UK DECAL SOURCES until he died circa 2008 a grandfather.His online philosophy was not to be greedy,just to have fun flipping collections after keeping what he wanted for his own collection

SMS88 wrote:
Just about every collector in 1980s UK would have been aware that Pickford corporate colour was navy blue because this was a national company with trucks seen just about everywhere so they would be most unlikely to ever be fooled by green Pickfords suddenly appearing for the 1st time 20 years after the blue ones.The suggestion that they were official production for Pickfords is as absurd as Exxon/Esso ordering corporate gifts with their familiar blue + red logo recoloured yellow + green (BP colours).Emerald green as mentioned previously is close to the colour of BRS, a major nationalised UK transport concern of the 1960s.

Hi all, so here's a question. So if this colour green was not a corporate colour...then why did the have green on the D-type box and not blue or did these boxes only ship to the US

gpwcollector wrote:

SMS88 wrote:
Just about every collector in 1980s UK would have been aware that Pickford corporate colour was navy blue because this was a national company with trucks seen just about everywhere so they would be most unlikely to ever be fooled by green Pickfords suddenly appearing for the 1st time 20 years after the blue ones.The suggestion that they were official production for Pickfords is as absurd as Exxon/Esso ordering corporate gifts with their familiar blue + red logo recoloured yellow + green (BP colours).Emerald green as mentioned previously is close to the colour of BRS, a major nationalised UK transport concern of the 1960s.

Hi all, so here's a question. So if this colour green was not a corporate colour...then why did the have green on the D-type box and not blue or did these boxes only ship to the US

The blue version was out of production BEFORE D boxes were introduced -so logical for Lesney´s D box artist to paint a green not a blue Pickfords.Lesney could paint their toys any colours that they wished once their original agreements with sponsors expired - the 13d reverse wrecker is a higher profile case in point - history has recorded BP the sponsors being behind the last minute rejection of the green cab yellow truck bed 13d.

Diecast wrote:I can answer that there are many and many models about which none of us heard over 50 years, e.g. my 10c Sugar Container in lighter blue with the crown and no front brace...

Could you please post some photographs in a new thread?

Antonin is very correct in that we are always learning even today about strange Lesney variations unheard of before now. The internet is bringing out childhood collections with never before shared oddities that even we '50 year' collectors can only dream of finding now....
Would I be exaggerating by saying that 90% of #46 Pickford Moving Vans were produced later in this non corporate green color? Am I accurate in saying that only 10% of production were colored blue early on for a very short production period, including those tough to find 2 line promotional variations? This is what we yanks saw in our U.S. stores by my personal experience, and it approximates what we still see existing today on world-wide E Bay listings of this Toy. Collectors in other areas of the world may have seen different numbers, so now even I am curious about this new point of discussion. Why else would (minty) blue Pickfords be selling for $100, versus (minty) green ones at only $15 without boxes here in America.
The last rear bumper variation of the green Van, and also the picture box it came in of course are the exception to cheap prices because they were produced for a very short last run. Were these two items mainly shipped to the U.S.? We had to look through a hundred non bumpered green Pickfords to find one or two with bumpers. The picture boxes often contained the early non-bumpered castings, so they were not rare here in our U.S. stores. This question is a bit off our promotional topic, but very interesting for we Forum members to discuss at this point. If we share our opinions on Lesney's worldwide distribution habits on these blue or green #46 Vans, especially with observations from others not in our areas of the world, we may learn a bit more about our main topic. OR Perhaps not......LOL kwakers

A small addition to say I am sorry to have not also included Jim G's example in our now 'known' 2 line green Pickfords promotional models along with Antonin's and matchboxrw's in my Post yesterday. I believe Jim was the first to step up bravely and give us some background on the example in his collection, so hopefully others will join us with sharing theirs, and also help give us some background on them. As I drove yesterday I remembered I had forgotten not only to Thank You, but to even mention your example for that matter. Thank you Jim!
We invite 'lurkers' to help us on this one also. You may find our Forum just as fun to participate in as it is to read and study. Sharing known information on our Toys, even if it contradicts anything now accepted as fact, can only add to our bank of collective knowledge Nick has documented at his site.....Dick 'Underground' 'Caveman' kwakers

The green Pickfords certain outnumber the blue ones quite heavily, even here in the UK (where everyone would know that the van should be dark blue).

Green with bpw are certainly in the majority here - its somewhere around 4-5 greens per blue here with spw being less common than gpw on both body colours.Interesting that the 1st body type only appears in blue - perhaps Pickfords only sponsered the original tool & when it broke, Lesney remade the tool & was free to recolour it at the sametime but still had a million or so already made Pickfords decals which could be used for free in the absence of any new sponser for the van.........