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GHOSTHUNTER wrote:Mick, I can still get into 'BeFora' with no problem, so give me something I need to be looking for, if you can remember where it is likely to be.

GHOSTHUNTER.

A big thread about SF wheels with lots of posts, in the superfast section,with some by Nigel who may have used the name MatchboxUK

OK Mick, I went into 'Mick's Matchbox Superfast Chatroom' and checked the first 10 threads (goes upto 30), and have saved what appears to be what you mentioned, I will re-post some or all of them here, in the order they originally appeared.

GHOSTHUNTER.

GHOSTHUNTER wrote:OK Mick, I went into 'Mick's Matchbox Superfast Chatroom' and checked the first 10 threads (goes upto 30), and have saved what appears to be what you mentioned, I will re-post some or all of them here, in the order they originally appeared.

GHOSTHUNTER.

Thanks! The timeline for the 1st dozen models was debated in detail with the realization that painted bodies and axle sets were stored for months or even 5 years in the case of orange #56 BMC bodies however models could never pre-date parts used which is why knowing wheel mould numbers gives us an earliest possible production period but no later limit than the model´s deletion if not used in multipacks.........

I don't want to bury you under (too many) common pictures (I have all those pics though). So just numbers here, for two variations of 41A Ford GT first.
1. White body - bright green base - dot after App - narrow wh wells - narrow exhaust surrounds - thin solid wh : 18D - 2D - 48D - 20D.
2. Bronze body - dull darker green base - no dot after App - narrow wh wells - large exhaust surrounds - thin hollow wh : M34 - M18 - M26 - M31.
Now for two variations of 56A BMC 1800 (one of my favourite castings / if only it had a proper dashboard).
1. Gold body - no labels - narrow wh wells - thin solid wh : E62 - E54 - E62 - E03.
2. Peach body - no labels - narrow wh wells - thin solid wh : E9 - E02 - E13 - E61.

What follows is a recreation of postings from our 'Old' forum, often called by members here as 'BeFora'. It is presented here as evidence towards establishing the true facts regards the first models converted into 'Superfast' versions during mid-69. The first posting is as a Question, based on information from an established source, but it seems that source was wrong and Mick ("SMS88"), has gone some way in trying to correct this for us.

This is important to the research currently being done into the wheel mould numbers and as you may have seen in my earlier post here, my listing of the first 5 models has also fell victim to the same wrong information, however, not wanting to call Mick a liar, or anything like that, I wanted to see the facts for myself and to see concrete evidence as to why the #11 Mercedes Scaffold Truck was not converted until 1970, this we will never truly know, but then I wanted to know which car took it's place in that 5 car line up, the Mercury Cougar or the VW 1600 TL.

Mick, if these are not the postings you were or are referring too, then I will go back into 'BeFora' and look into the next 20 threads, OK.

GHOSTHUNTER.

LEFT-CLICK TO VIEW FULLY AND THEN JUST SCROLL

GHOSTHUNTER wrote:What follows is a recreation of postings from our 'Old' forum, often called by members here as 'BeFora'. It is presented here as evidence towards establishing the true facts regards the first models converted into 'Superfast' versions during mid-69. The first posting is as a Question, based on information from an established source, but it seems that source was wrong and Mick ("SMS88"), has gone some way in trying to correct this for us.

This is important to the research currently being done into the wheel mould numbers and as you may have seen in my earlier post here, my listing of the first 5 models has also fell victim to the same wrong information, however, not wanting to call Mick a liar, or anything like that, I wanted to see the facts for myself and to see concrete evidence as to why the #11 Mercedes Scaffold Truck was not converted until 1970, this we will never truly know, but then I wanted to know which car took it's place in that 5 car line up, the Mercury Cougar or the VW 1600 TL.

Mick, if these are not the postings you were or are referring too, then I will go back into 'BeFora' and look into the next 20 threads, OK.

GHOSTHUNTER.

LEFT-CLICK TO VIEW FULLY AND THEN JUST SCROLL

The attachment 1969, 1.JPG is no longer available

Sometimes my memory can get confused as to the results/conclusions of some of our debates , and while I was a junior Matchbox collector when SF were launched, I only personally remember the Iso + Lotus + BMC + Marzal from Christmas 1969 in London. The Scaffolding truck was a brand new casting released in the UK spring 1969 as a regular wheels only model -there are millions of these about,its a very common model - the suggestion that it was converted to SF ahead of almost all car castings but never given an SF F box design unlike ALL SF models issued before G boxes appeared summer 1970 stretches faith too far for most folks.
There is another thread or more posts somewhere about release order based upon box designs - those SF models found in tracksets with RW boxes and or red SF script boxes came first with the 11th or 12th SF that appeared only in USA in December 1969 being the SF25 Cortina GT.
These 2 Lesney publicty photos show the models that they planned to release in 1969 with 2 waves of 5 being generally accepted and zero disputes as to the 1st 8 models being those shown together. If you find that old thread the conclusion my memory is now playing tricks -not sure which timeline I am in now LOL! We MAY have reached the conclusion with evidence based upon trackset contents + memories + reports in AIM - waves may have been 14,15,33,41,62, followed by 2nd wave 5,8,20,56,67 with 69 as 11th , 25 as 12 then new #35 Merryweather early in 1970 with it being a false hazy recollection of it ever getting out anywhere in 1969

Concentrating first on #11 Mercedes Scaffold Truck, yes we know it was a 1969 new addition to the 'Regular' wheel range. Someone somewhere, has managed to convince a certain number of collectors that this model was converted to 'Superfast' in 1969, and was included in the 5 model launch in mid-69. As you have pointed out, there appear to be no boxes for this model with the Red or Black 'Superfast' script and so far no photographic evidence of an example fitted with the wheels, taken before the end of 1969.

This advert you posted with your 'BeFora' posting, is interesting as it shows the BMC with the style of 'Superfast' wheels fitted to full production models, so when the artwork for this was done, the style had been cleared for use but the Scaffold Truck is clearly still wearing 'Regular' wheels. Is this advert definitely from 1969, or early 1970? The overriding feeling towards #11, is as you have said all along, it was a 1970 conversion not 1969 and the original idea of it being done in 1969 is puzzling as to how that came about and has managed to find it's way into the 'Forty Years' book.

I am happy to put this one to bed and change my own original notes for this.

I will go into 'BeFora' and look for posts about release order based upon box designs.

GHOSTHUNTER.

GHOSTHUNTER wrote:Concentrating first on #11 Mercedes Scaffold Truck, yes we know it was a 1969 new addition to the 'Regular' wheel range. Someone somewhere, has managed to convince a certain number of collectors that this model was converted to 'Superfast' in 1969, and was included in the 5 model launch in mid-69. As you have pointed out, there appear to be no boxes for this model with the Red or Black 'Superfast' script and so far no photographic evidence of an example fitted with the wheels, taken before the end of 1969.

This advert you posted with your 'BeFora' posting, is interesting as it shows the BMC with the style of 'Superfast' wheels fitted to full production models, so when the artwork for this was done, the style had been cleared for use but the Scaffold Truck is clearly still wearing 'Regular' wheels. Is this advert definitely from 1969, or early 1970?

1969 Advert.JPG

The overriding feeling towards #11, is as you have said all along, it was a 1970 conversion not 1969 and the original idea of it being done in 1969 is puzzling as to how that came about and has managed to find it's way into the 'Forty Years' book.

I am happy to put this one to bed and change my own original notes for this.

I will go into 'BeFora' and look for posts about release order based upon box designs.

GHOSTHUNTER.

It was only the 40 years book that pushed the theory which was reprinted elsewhere. Nigel Cooper, who wrote that chapter of the 40 years book took part in our forum discussion of this list and to the best of my recollection he agreed it was a mistake confusing the penultimate RW release mid 1969 with the SF ones alongside it. It was a very interesting thread which maybe located by searching for all posts on Leofa by MatchboxUK because he didnt make many!

53 A Ford Zodiac - Lt blue body - Thin solid wheels : F16 - G13 (unsure about letter) - 47D - 25D.
53 A Ford Zodiac - Lt green body - Thin hollow wheels : L10 - L2 - L35 - L36.
69 A Rolls coupé - Blue body - Black base - No cut out under front LP - Solid wheels : 35D - F5 - A21A - 39D.
69 A Rolls coupé - Blue body - Light yellow base - Cut out under front LP - Hollow wheels : F29 - F26 - F28 - F32.
Document is from the Ministry of Silly Wheels. Concerns the 69A Rolls coupé with black base.

I am glad we have a picture of the #69 Rolls-Royce wheel showing...A 21 A. Just what is going on here, is it...A 21, A2-1A or 21A ?? I rather think it could be a change over point when the letter Suffix became a letter Prefix, so...21A is changed into...A21 and they went through the Alphabet with B21, C21 and D21 etc.

Thanks Matchboom for more wheel numbers and for showing the Rolls-Royce wheel.

GHOSTHUNTER.