Please help

[motorman]

I am sorry Dick but the more i look at the images of the #8 Major Pack Mobilgas Tanker i see evidence of tampering to the wheels and axle ends.

[nickjones]

While I was a the Brentwood toyfair yesterday I had a nice chat with Graham (Rockertron) regarding the amount of fakes on the market nowadays. He particularly mentioned one of his very best (and wealthiest) customers who had decided to sell up his very extensive Matchbox collection. He had offered to sell the collection to Graham but a collection of this size and quality was beyond Grahams purchasing power so it went to Vectis,
Among the pieces he wanted to sell was a yellow hub tractor which he had purchased from Vectis circa 2002 for £800. Graham examined the tractor and it was 100% genuine Lesney without any doubt, When Vectis sold for the second time it went for £280, The value of this toy has been more than halved thanks to the likes of t.u.t.

I myself had a very similar experience, I had bought two Baron of Beef buses in around about 2004/5, a mimb 5d and a lightly playworn unboxed 5c, I can't remember what I paid for the 5d but do I know that I paid £280 for the 5c, I recently sold the 5c on ebay, It went for £80.
This again is the result of one very well known and until recently highly respected dealer that bought a large batch of Baron of Beef decals at a Vectis sale. So the market for Baron of Beef buses has been killed off too,
Regardless this dealer still punts out his so called "pre-production" models by the dozen which all have bog standard body castings in non Lesney colours assembled with parts from lightly playworn models,

This shows how the forgers and fakers are slowly bleeding our hobby to death. So I would personally like to thank Numi and the rest of the members that are exposing these crooks.
I lost £200 but I know it is only a miniscule amount compared to the thousands of pounds that has been pocketed from other collectors.
I hear t.u.t. recently repaid one collector thousands and is currently in fear of his life. We must educate ourselves to spot and expose these conmen or our collections will be worth nothing. I know many collectors say they do not buy toys as an investment but unless we continue to be vigilant we will be lucky to see half of our money back when we, or our loved ones that inherit them come to sell.

[motorman]

Fakers like TUT should be more feafful of doing a long stretch inside for mass fraud.

[kwakers]

Hello Motorman! I am assuming you mean the BPW variation that brought $500 a while ago that was sold by Two Old Folks. The Feedback from the Buyer who has now inspected it in hand with great detail I am sure, is quoted as follows:
Extremely Pleased, Great Item, Great Price, 5 Star Seller A+++++ (No smoking Gun there at all).
Both this Tanker with BPW, and also the common GPW version they sold both look O.K. to me, as does the rest of this very detailed Major Pack collection this couple had sold off. Most were Mint and boxed, they ring no alarm bells with me. If I buy from them in the future I will find out who they are, and perhaps we may have met by snail mail or in a Club over the time I have been collecting Lesneys. For now I would need item numbers or information on the 41 Jag. Racer and 34 VW SPW Van that Numi has mentioned earlier in order to find out why she distrusts them so deeply. Perhaps 100 Lesneys sold over 3-4 years with one 'Wrong Color' 67 VW in light purple being evident, could it have been the colour setting on that one model alone? I don't think so, the base rivets are not factory done after looking that listing over very carefully. Do they have a second hidden account where that 2 colored Hatra was bought with? I just don't know any other facts other than what I see with my own eyes Motorman, and all other things look 'normal' here. One fake, 99 'good' variations? A few flaws in Lesney Toys, no big surprises, most good ones have them. That is my scoreboard on this couple and their Feedback until more facts are shared. We just disagree, that's all......
As Johnboy (?) once showed us vividly on the Forum, stock Lesney rivets can either look 'perfect' when done right, or absolutely horrible on other 'factory' models. They are NOT uniform at all. When viewed microscopically, most Lesney base rivets and axle ends show flaws, these were just mass produced toys using basic crude tooling all done by hand. The Forum learned quite a bit from his showing the findings from his brave 'collection inspection' and the discussions that followed.
Nick is right about decal and label variations, lets hope the value decline ends there. kwakers

[numi]

Im not on trial here and do not necessarily have to answer every niggly question especially that all members & Ebayers have the necessary tools available to them in gaining more info/insight on any subject necessary,esp fakes or fraudsters.Whenever I give out any alerts I do not give flowery & lengthy write-ups,reasons or findings.Its up to the interested buyer/collector to do more research if he so requires additional info and not come back to me as though they wish to be spoon-fed and i do not mean to be bad at all as i do not ever question a question.

@Kwakers,perhaps if ure up to it then do revisit & scrutinize all the original model pics in each & every listing mentioned to re-determine & re-evaluate.Drag them to desktop and enlarge/enhance to get the best determinations.Also read my posts carefully,do your own comparisons with the specimens in your collection or virtual and then do your own investigation as I had formally done.U also have your own experience and Nicks Site available.I do not fabricate or grab onto straws but have pure glaring facts.
Unfortunately due to this your dissatisfaction & rejection as fakes then do know that im unable to assist or convince u further.All facts & reliable info is glaring in the sellers listing pics,feedback,recent & past sales,purchases and feedback.Thereafter perhaps summarily put yourself in the fakers seat and u would easily see all the tampering and his modus operandi.

The Blue Prefect is a fake and I am confident that they do not ever exist irrespective what any book claims.Shows clear signs of base replacement/base rivet tampering.Also see paint damage/chips only on the right side wheel arches and has a damaged wheel,any exceptions? Axle tampering?? The wear on the base is not at all consistent with the overall condition of model,see base paint chipping on axle-webs but none under the pale blue body.

The Gpw Davies is a fake.The axle-ends clearly show signs of being filed down in order for the replacement Gpw’s to slide over.The left rear wheel of truck is damaged.

The Bpw Mobilgas is clearly a fake.Look closely at my enlarged pic of just the truck showing the shiny filed-down axle-ends.Any collector who knows about axle-ends and Mb models and who are able to differentiate them from fakes will have already picked this up.

The $600 Amber window wrecker with yellow hook that could have been easily changed is highly suspect with a possible window replacement from a beater,is dull and show signs of previous handling & crack/tiny chips on roof light incl bad base rivet.Had several paint touch-ups and also shows paint chips on the rear axle-webs.

The 2-tone Hatra is a fake in that blister,the #41 spoke wheel Jag is a fake and so was the Spw Caravette.Kwakers could easily find these by spending a little time with a hot cup of coffee during this cold season.

The Blue Low-loader is a likely suspect with bad/odd axle crimps,has light blue paint residue on trailer hitch area and the trailer hitch cross has full paint?? ….as opposed to them showing signs(chips,scratches) after being hitched.
Im sorry for being wrong when im so right and certainly not suffering from Fake-fever

Buyers feedback to any seller means nothing when glaring facts of tampering are evident in pics.These types of buyers are ill-alert,less knowledgeable,never curious about origin/authenticity and have full blinded trust on the seller.How many times have u made a purchase,gave positive feedback and then later found that the model was a fake?? Unfortunately,nowadays we are unable to alert buyers unless we already have them saved as Sellers. Generally some buyers/collectors are so blinded by excitement & exerted passion,they couldn’t even tell a fake even if it was held in-hand.

Right now u seem to be the only odd one out here Kwakers with regards to defining these fakes! Sometimes by not telling it as it was supposed to be told then all we have done is inhibit the proper & articulated judgement in a person concerned.Shoot me!!

Its 6days since I wrote to this seller telling them they were selling fake models and to this minute had no response…… Surprised? This seller is also an active MB collector so the story about selling off Hubbys Collection is a farce.

Heres another misdemeanour on the sellers part.Sold a repro box with factory model but described box as original. Item:191399244672. http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Matchbox-Majo ... 2c9048b380

I am in no way victimizing this Us seller,its just that he/they brought this upon themselves.Their non-response speaks for itself!

numi

[kwakers]

You are letting this get a bit too personal Numi, but I still Love you even if we are fighting a bit lately. The Feedback from the Buyer with model in hand on the 27A in blue is the following:
"Highly Recommended. Exactly as Described & Promptly shipped. Thank You!!" (Also no Smoking Gun here Numi) If the argument has to be that all of 'Two Old Folk's' Buyers are excited dummys, what can I do to defend all 70+ Buyers that have already left Positive Feedback for their Lesney Toys bought out of this collection.
I don't need a lecture Numi, but I will take one from you any day you wish to post one as long as your's above. I certainly never wished to cause this much stress over our disagreeing on a Seller's collection here. If my informative Post was too long for anyone to learn anything from, simply ignore what I have to say, and don't read it. It's that easy! We both have different views here, and if I stand alone in defense of a collector, it certainly will not be the last time I will do so here on our Forum.......
I simply asked for more detailed information here on the unlisted models you mentioned above that were most troubling to you, not for spoonfeeding me or any other member of our Forum, that's all. These suspect models were in fact your original concerns with Two Old Folks history Numi, in a 'Trial' you have initiated here. You are right, YOU are not the one on trial here ....
I will not spend long hours of collecting time in boring research just to find the details of your earlier claims on these Sellers Numi. Your skills as a computer Supersleuth are well above mine, but I am old enough to know most original Lesney axle ends cannot be verified by magnified pictures alone, only the real badly faked ones. AARP Chief Defender kwakers
"American Association of Retired Persons", For those of you never having dealt with obnoxious traveling Yanks.

[nearlymint]

Im sorry but this seller is a conman or woman or maybe both, just go back in the feedback there is another amber window wrecker over a year ago. Now they are buying more models to modify and sell(check the recent seller they have bought from), just not right they are fraudsters. J

[Tinman]

If I buy from them in the future I will find out who they are, and perhaps we may have met by snail mail or in a Club over the time I have been collecting Lesneys.

I see they recently bought an item from John Mcloskey. John will have their full name, address and telephone number on his sellers dashboard. Odd that someone downsizing and "selling off the collection" would keep buying more "stuff" just like what they are trying to sell.

Since this discussion has become a bit of a dust up, I looked into the "old folks" a little. Certainly some odd purchases for someone selling off a collection. Perhaps, they are not so innocent after all. One thing that's common, once certain people get a taste of "easy money," they often keep drinking from the same tainted well.

The Hatra being glued into that blister pack certainly raises too many question and there are no good answers. Perhaps their name should be "two-old-fraudsters." I'm recalling the AARP troops in light of my small bit of research.

The thing about positive feedback & fraudsters is that it's easy to manipulate. If the buyer never suspects the item is fake, the feedback can be glowing. If the buyer does suspect fraud and returns the item for a refund, the sale is canceled and no one gets to leave feedback.

[numi]

If I buy from them in the future I will find out who they are, and perhaps we may have met by snail mail or in a Club over the time I have been collecting Lesneys.

......... I'm recalling the AARP troops in light of my small bit of research.

Not necessary to recall your AARP troops Tinman cos i had already sent them packing....... a week ago
numi

[numi]

Thanks to Jason for bringing these fraudsters to our attention and thanks to Vetrad,MM,Ghosty,Sms88,Jazzy,Mr Jones and Tinman for their posts.Thanks to Kwakers as well for taking me up on this issue and im sure all readers would have learned something new about fakes & fakers and the guises that they operate under.

Just so u know that i had received 7x Pm's stating that they (some of our active forum members) are in 100% agreement with my findings and that these "Two Old Fraudsters" should enter the Ebay Hall of Shame".
Further to these Pm's it was stated that they (some of our members) did not respond publicly cos they did not want to go against/challenge or upset Tinman & Kwakers and apologized to me for not standing up to the glaring truth.
My response was that i was born alone and never afraid to stand alone with my role model being my Dad..

Please do accept my apologies if i had upset any member in the interim esp Kwakers when i had used some harsh tones so that i could drive a message home (the cave.. ) but I still love you!
Thanks again.
numi