Valuable Error Piece!

[johnboy]

I haven't got any old spares of this model, but is there anyone who could test how easily a wheel will slot into the gap? I know that there's a coat of paint to allow for, but I'd be interested to know if strong force is needed or whether it's quite an easy fit.

[motorman]

I haven't got any old spares of this model, but is there anyone who could test how easily a wheel will slot into the gap? I know that there's a coat of paint to allow for, but I'd be interested to know if strong force is needed or whether it's quite an easy fit.

I would imaging that it would need to be a reasonably tight fit because otherwise any wheel that got lodged would simply fall back out during the tumbling process.

[nickjones]

My one also had the spare on the right. Surely if it was an intended version the wheel would have been fitted after the body had been painted. Also it would have been properly secured to the body as George and Hugh have pointed out these spare wheels do come out so there would have been a danger of it being swallowed by a child.
Also as an ex tyre shop employee I can tell you there are not many men that can lift a complete wheel and tyre assembly to the height of the back of the cab. The spare would be extremely dangerous to get down and almost impossible to put back.

[SMS88]

My one also had the spare on the right. Surely if it was an intended version the wheel would have been fitted after the body had been painted. Also it would have been properly secured to the body as George and Hugh have pointed out these spare wheels do come out so there would have been a danger of it being swallowed by a child.
Also as an ex tyre shop employee I can tell you there are not many men that can lift a complete wheel and tyre assembly to the height of the back of the cab. The spare would be extremely dangerous to get down and almost impossible to put back.

No, not if the truck was fitted with a cab coloured wheel holder like so many 1920s cars!
Anyone got a loose MW and a less than mint 20a to judge how much force is required to put a wheel completely between cab + tray on a 20a? Perhaps its so much force that a wheel wouldnt go all the way into the crevice without assistance from fingers because it seems they dont fall out with gravity. The other factor to consider is that no 20a has yet been found with 2 extra wheels -if it is possible for 1 wheel to get wedged then its possible for 2.
As I have said earlier in this thread, ERF , (like the RW71a) was a brand of truck known for vertical spare wheel behind the cab NOT horizontal under the tray back so i stick with my assessment that this was a planned detail eliminated from production most likely after the trial assembly run made before volume production began -just like the maroon base 23cs!
I have no idea why Jack Odell chose this elderly 1950 model ERF truck for the 1-75 series HOWEVER odds are it was because Lesney owned some for deliveries and that they had spare wheels behind the cab

[Idris]

No, not if the truck was fitted with a cab coloured wheel holder like so many 1920s cars!

...except this isn't the 1920s, this is the 1950s!

Anyone got a loose MW and a less than mint 20a to judge how much force is required to put a wheel completely between cab + tray on a 20a? Perhaps its so much force that a wheel wouldnt go all the way into the crevice without assistance from fingers because it seems they dont fall out with gravity. The other factor to consider is that no 20a has yet been found with 2 extra wheels -if it is possible for 1 wheel to get wedged then its possible for 2.

We have no evidence that they don't fall out under gravity. Unpainted, they might well do. Painted, they are held in by...er....paint!
If one can get jammed in the, yes, there is no reason to say that two can#t. However, if the chance of a wheel getting stuckis, say 1 in 1,000, then the chances of two wheels getting stuck is 1 in 1,000,000! Perhaps that explains why we've never seen a double spare 20a.

As I have said earlier in this thread, ERF , (like the RW71a) was a brand of truck known for vertical spare wheel behind the cab NOT horizontal under the tray back so i stick with my assessment that this was a planned detail eliminated from production most likely after the trial assembly run made before volume production began -just like the maroon base 23cs!

You have made this statement before but, in spite of being challenged, have failed to produce any evidence to back it up.

I have no idea why Jack Odell chose this elderly 1950 model ERF truck for the 1-75 series HOWEVER odds are it was because Lesney owned some for deliveries and that they had spare wheels behind the cab

Pure, unadulterated supposition!

[Tinman]

I'm with Idris and going with the Occam's razor theory VS anything more complex.

[nickjones]

I have never seen a HGV with the spare wheel attached to the back of the cab, It would be far too heavy to lift into place,
When I was a young and healthy man I could throw a lorry tyre onto the back of a lorry, I could just about lift a lorry wheel to waist height but I could not lift a wheel and tyre off of the ground.
An army truck needs the extra ground clearance hence the spare tyre on the 71a. But even a spare tyre slung underneath a HGV is hoisted into place on a wire.

[MOKOSEX]

Some of you may know i work in a foundry,some of our casting are "barreled" this basically means the casting is rotated with stones,this takes off the sharp edges etc ,the reason i mention this is sometimes if theres a gap or hole in the casting the stones get stuck in and have to be removed,some are well and truely wedged in.
With this in mind i think that the wheel behind the cab is an error from tumbling,if lesney wanted a wheel there they would have cast one in ,theres no reason to add the wheel on purpose and maybe the ones that did get painted should have been rejected by the hand trim painters but some could have got through and these are the ones that have been seen,remember if lesney wanted the wheel there and the die was a whole model die they would have needed to cast five wheels,just can,t see it happening.
dave

[kwakers]

After 5 pages of deliberation and speculation, perhaps we must look a bit closer at the 20A! I have 3 at hand in maroon, and not one metal wheel on any of them has any number on it at all. Also now looking at a 24 A, a 5A, and an 11A without numbers on any of their wheels either (that are close at hand), makes me wonder if the practice of numbering the metal wheels didn't start a little later in 1957 on our Lesneys. Perhaps, 'standard' metal wheel castings were used before that time for various wheel diameters that were close to scale for a given model. More research on the numbering of wheels is now obviously needed. I don't have a 20A without it's wheels, but the rear gap between the cab and bed on my 3 examples all measure 9 mm. The tread width of the metal wheels on these 3 are between 8 and 9 mm. The center hub looks wider, but cannot be measured while mounted on the axle. The fit looks tight between the two measurements, so does not answer our main question. Were they done intentionally? or not..........kwakers

[Diecast]

Unfortunately I have not in my collection a model with the spare wheel. So I checked my spare models if, by lucky chance, I have at least the model with an unpainted shadow after the spare wheel (as George showed us). By checking, I noticed that one model has more treads and the wheel is a little bit larger.
Antonin