miura 33

[numi]

Kurt always has to be reminded about posting close-up pics of the base rivets and area around it (incl axle-ends in certain instances) for his models that needs authentication Feed us the necessary info which will help fellow members make immediate determinations & claims of their findings instead of going back & forth.
Dont mean to sound condescending but im sure others feel the same and also dont want to annoy u in any way by making multiple requests
Do u have a digi-cam with Makro settings that u could use or are u using your phone cam?
We are here to help u put your mind at ease with your very interesting finds!
numi

[Pierkemimi]

Kurt always has to be reminded about posting close-up pics of the base rivets and area around it (incl axle-ends in certain instances) for his models that needs authentication Feed us the necessary info which will help fellow members make immediate determinations & claims of their findings instead of going back & forth.
Dont mean to sound condescending but im sure others feel the same and also dont want to annoy u in any way by making multiple requests
Do u have a digi-cam with Makro settings that u could use or are u using your phone cam?
We are here to help u put your mind at ease with your very interesting finds!
numi

Do understand your frustrations. My eyes and camera dont mix well together.
First of all, in Nick jones list there are 2 variations : with and without towhook. Asked around and nobody has a model in his collection. Know that I found one, maybay the base is polished, but the rivets are clearly no fakes. My remark : when I present a model everyone has doubts . Let me say in Belgium I have one off the biggest superfast collection around. Have lots of very difficult ones even from the regular models. ( I recognize a fake)
I thought everyone would be interested to see a model that was hard to find. Maybey i'm mistaken.
Also next week I would present a real (no fake) blue iso grifo with white interior of the regulars but now I will not do it.
Maybey time to quite the forum (the best there is due to the great expectise of many collectors).
Sounds maybey hard what i have said but comes straight from my hart. Sorry If I make mistakes in my writhing (int gents gezegd elk zijn mening)

[Pierkemimi]

The yellow Superfast #33 with white interior sold by Bob Brennen was out of his own collection. He documented that variation in 1971 as his Code "C", and his was definitely a REAL one. He, like Harold Colpitts, stressed honesty in ALL his listings well before any of our best rarities were priced at more than $100 to other collectors. Mick and I had a heated discussion on that particular model AND it's Code because I felt it was foolish of our Forum member to cancel the sale of Bob's model for a full refund even before the model was shipped and in the Forum members hands for inspection. Mick, the "Superfast" expert who knows very little about Bob Brennen, called that model a recent base swap. He was very abusive of my friend Bob's integrity in a Post on our Forum. Mick had seemed to nullify even the existence of this variation initially, but I see it is still listed at Nick's site. An honest man like Bob did not make dishonest mistakes back then, and he certainly would not offer anything that might harm his integrity now.
That is all Forum History from last year, now to the present with Kurt's model:
As for Kurt's pictured here, YES, the base has been cleaned WITH the body attached to it as evidenced by the rear underside paint that is missing. Even the high points of those rivets have been polished up a bit as everyone can see. We can't control what others may have done to clean up a corroded non-plated base at some time in this model's 45 year life, but these smaller rivets look as good to me as any done from the factory on these Miuras. Many early releases have unplated bases that tarnish easily over the years, and I suspect this one had the typical powdered look that seemed easy to "polish off a bit".This may be a prime example of why "Cleaning" baseplates, paint blemishes, or even axles may not be the best idea on some of our rare Lesney variations. The results may lead to negative Forum discussions over the mistakes of former owners, accusations of fakery, and may not lead to the validation of a very rare model. Kurt has held this Miura in his hands and is now happy with it's originality. I am also of like mind about it from his pictures and I think it is O.K., but I do see the reasons why Jason and others may not have complete faith in it. kwakers

Thanks for the reply.

[GHOSTHUNTER]

Kurt, I and others don't want you to quit the forum, that is not the answer to all our problems. You can understand the reluctance of some members views about certain models, because there are so many fakes out there and we have to scrutinize virtually everything we see that is a little out of the ordinary.

We do understand the fact that you want us to see a model that is a bit different from the common models and we thank you for doing that, but we have to be careful we are not welcoming in to our community any fake models, now, you may have aquired a model in good faith and be quite happy that it is genuine, but as soon as it is presented to so many other Eyes, on a forum such as this, it will be picked to pieces and you must accept that this is the way we operate.

Certainly if one of your models turns out to be non original and has received some tampering, we would want you to be fully informed about it and for you to put it down to experience, OK.

Now, this Blue Iso Griffo with White interior, please do show us, we do want to see examples of rare models, but again be prepaired for negative as well as positive comments from forum members.

Ghosthunter.

[Idris]

I thought everyone would be interested to see a model that was hard to find. Maybey i'm mistaken.
Also next week I would present a real (no fake) blue iso grifo with white interior of the regulars but now I will not do it.
Maybey time to quite the forum (the best there is due to the great expectise of many collectors).
Sounds maybey hard what i have said but comes straight from my hart. Sorry If I make mistakes in my writhing (int gents gezegd elk zijn mening)

Speaking with my Admin.'s hat on, I cannot see any problems with the comments which have been made. Rather than someone shouting "FAKE!" without any supporting arguments (as happened so often in the past), we have a good-natured, well-argued discussion with certain members needing to be convinced. Furthermore, as is sometimes the case, a what passes for a definitive assessment can only be given when the model is examined in the hand.
I would ask you to reconsider both your decision not to post photographs of the blue Iso Grifo with white interior and your doubts about continuing to be a member of VBD. (Samen zijn we sterk. We hebben je nodig!)

[Taniwha]

If we could get enough members to produce decent pictures of the rivets and axle-ends of their models, they probably should be in each models own casting show that we already have.

Ghosthunter.

Ghosty et. al.,

I have no objection in particular to creating such 'reference libraries'. But I can't help thinking that serious collectors will have their own libraries of good examples in their own collection. I think the best way to get a feel for 'correct' rivets or axle ends is simply to handle and inspect a large quantity of common models. I sometimes get concerned that some collectors target only rare/scarce models, and do not gain the degree of familiarity with common models that would help discern fakes without the need for such a reference. After all, there is no substitute for having a model in hand for inspection.

Cheers,
Gavin

[fixer]

Kurt I've had several models criticised harshly don't worry about it, as Hugh has said no one has said it's fake only concerns over the way the base is finished, there are so many fakes out there it makes people very cautious possibly missing out on a rare find looking for perfect rivets axle ends etc, these are mass produced toys not high end engineering items and any rare piece will be open to scrutiny
Please continue to post as all input helps to understand these wonderful little cars

[GHOSTHUNTER]

If we could get enough members to produce decent pictures of the rivets and axle-ends of their models, they probably should be in each models own casting show that we already have.

Ghosthunter.

Ghosty et. al.,

I have no objection in particular to creating such 'reference libraries'. But I can't help thinking that serious collectors will have their own libraries of good examples in their own collection. I think the best way to get a feel for 'correct' rivets or axle ends is simply to handle and inspect a large quantity of common models. I sometimes get concerned that some collectors target only rare/scarce models, and do not gain the degree of familiarity with common models that would help discern fakes without the need for such a reference. After all, there is no substitute for having a model in hand for inspection.

Cheers,
Gavin

Yes by all means Gavin, but for those that don't, they may well come to the forum looking for decent pictures of the rivets etc to compare with models in their collection.

The 'hands On' approach to confirming a models status is of course paramount, no picture can replace this, but an information base such as the website and linked forum should have some sort of detailed picture reference library of these important details for our own benefit and for the benefit of new collector/members.

Ghosthunter.

[Pierkemimi]

If we could get enough members to produce decent pictures of the rivets and axle-ends of their models, they probably should be in each models own casting show that we already have.

Ghosthunter.

Ghosty et. al.,

I have no objection in particular to creating such 'reference libraries'. But I can't help thinking that serious collectors will have their own libraries of good examples in their own collection. I think the best way to get a feel for 'correct' rivets or axle ends is simply to handle and inspect a large quantity of common models. I sometimes get concerned that some collectors target only rare/scarce models, and do not gain the degree of familiarity with common models that would help discern fakes without the need for such a reference. After all, there is no substitute for having a model in hand for inspection.

Cheers,
Gavin

I started collection commom models, when that was done it's natural for a collector to find as much variations as possible and it ends with finding the rare or scare models. In case of the miura I have several models and lots of spare models (maybey 50). And no model is scare, you just have to know, look and surch for these. For example the yellow superfast I have 4, all without tow hook. Looking for one with towhook, mint or played. Have the time.
I'm trie to find models to see everyone to give them the hope that there models, never been seen, that they do excist.
By the way the model on christian I think it's a fake because the paint is to thick. Miura models are not so thick painted. Before I buy something and before I have it in my hand I never have been mistaken. Call it an eagle-eye.

[Pierkemimi]

In the meantime : here the base of the blue iso grifo with white interior (regular model, no superfast)

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