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I agree with Ghosty, Kay's rear decal immediately looked like an airplane modeler's dash board decal to me. Maybe more will be found in time??
I will have to publicly admit to having bought a DDR #25 Tanker from Germany recently without decal that Idris had mentioned here one day. He had his, but I still needed one with a known provenance for our collection. I had never really thought about buying Toys without their 'stock' decals, but this Tanker also had the very early Masked sprayed silver grill with a light touch of bumper paint on it. I already had the silver grill variant that I had completely forgotten about, but not without it's 'stock' decals as this one right out of Germany. I have been blessed on this purchase, and I owe Hugh dearly for the lead on this DDR German Tanker.
When the model arrived from Germany, a flip of the cab showed me just how early that painted grill cab casting was. The back wall of the cab is the very early thin one that we had been shown last year in a Forum post. I now have that example for our collection, but I believe the other model that was shown with this thin rear cab wall had decals on it. Questions now arise on any new codes for these #25 Tanker Trucks:
1. Martin's Maxim of at least 2 models owned by Forum members with the thin back wall casting has now been met. (It May have been before, but it was not added to Nick's list as of yet). BUT, they are now technically 2 different variations both 'with' and 'without' stock BP decals on them.
2. Do we call these models with thin wall rear cabs pre-pro models until more than just two (?) are known?
3. Do we now add only a single new 'stock' thick rear cab wall variation without decals as delivered to East Germany, or do we now include the thin wall cabs also as another 2 variations both with and without stock BP decals on them?
Thanks to Idris, the above question he asks has now been answered factually in that we now know of at least 2 variations of the DDR Tankers without BP decals that were delivered to Germany.....Maybe....unless they are all considered errors as delivered to the stores over there?
I miss Martin, has anyone heard from him lately?? kwakers

Hi Dick.
Martin is alive and well and seems to be making a good recovery from his stroke. I saw a post from him this weekend on facebook.

I don't do facebook Nick, ( Can ANYONE be surprised at that? so if you get a chance, please drop Martin a line for all of us to tell him we miss him on the Forum. Thank You for the Positive update on him, I have been a little worried by his absence and I am glad to hear his recovery is continuing. kwakers

kwakers wrote:Thank You for the Positive update on him, I have been a little worried by his absence and I am glad to hear his recovery is continuing. kwakers

I think I speak for all the rest of us when I say we are all glad to hear that good news.

kwakers wrote:Questions now arise on any new codes for these #25 Tanker Trucks:
1. Martin's Maxim of at least 2 models owned by Forum members with the thin back wall casting has now been met. (It May have been before, but it was not added to Nick's list as of yet). BUT, they are now technically 2 different variations both 'with' and 'without' stock BP decals on them.
2. Do we call these models with thin wall rear cabs pre-pro models until more than just two (?) are known?
3. Do we now add only a single new 'stock' thick rear cab wall variation without decals as delivered to East Germany, or do we now include the thin wall cabs also as another 2 variations both with and without stock BP decals on them?

Since it is extremely easy to create the DDR version from a standard version, I would suggest simply adding a footnote to the variation table stating which codes are believed to have bee supplied to the DDR without decals/labels.

I nominate Kay to head the research on that Footnote Idris! I am sure there are some veteran regular wheel collectors he knows that will have accurate knowledge of whether the tough GPW version was originally shipped over there without it's decals. I like the idea of the Footnote, the Microscale solution and a German Post Office box may not get as much action that way..... kwakers

kwakers wrote:the Microscale solution and a German Post Office box may not get as much action that way..... kwakers

Thanks for the tip, A German P.O. Box, why didn't I think of that?

kwakers wrote:I nominate Kay to head the research on that Footnote Idris! I am sure there are some veteran regular wheel collectors he knows that will have accurate knowledge of whether the tough GPW version was originally shipped over there without it's decals. I like the idea of the Footnote, the Microscale solution and a German Post Office box may not get as much action that way..... kwakers

Well, ehm......yes......no, we don't have any Microscale in use over here, actually we don't know them at all....nudge, nudge.

Within In the next two months we have two Matchbox collectors meetings over here in Germany, and one of them even takes place in the middle of East Germany (is that what you call the Middle East, btw.?).
It should be possible to find out a few more details. Generally most people just told me about the missing decals, not about the variations - and they also mentioned the No. 25c Tanker without the BP decals.
I hope they have some more details to share.....

Kay

P.S. We don't have P.O. boxes here either - we use litter boxes for secret messages.....

A couple of points:
1) I've always thought it a bit strange that the DDR ended up with unbranded BP tankers rather than unbranded Aral (i.e. West German) tankers. I can only suppose that in the semi-closed East German society, not enough people were aware of Aral and their livery for it to matter.
2) Dick's early cab DDR 25c is interesting because it is highly implausible that Lesney would send first release models to such a small market as the DDR. This means either the early cab is a lot more common than previously thought, or Dick's model represents yet another example of stockroom clearance, with an early cab paired with a later model.

I think this thread is as good a place as any to start compiling a list of the variations known to have been supplied to the DDR without labels/decals. If anyone is able to add details of a model with East German provenance, please copy the list below to a new post and update. In order to avoid confusion, please use only Nick Jones variation codes.

DDR Tankers
11b: Code 11
25c: Code 3 (thin-walled cab rear), code 3 (thick-walled cab rear)
32c: Chrome grille/no blocks/thick fillers/no tow guide

Interestingly, both my 25c and 32c are in immaculate standard (i.e. illustrating BP-branded tankers). new model boxes, and the 32c box has had a small "2" (about the same height as the printed model no.) added very neatly, in blue biro, directly above the right-hand 32 on both sides of the box.