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SMS88 wrote:

Diecast wrote:My proposal of the new list of 38b.
Antonin

The wheel variations and box variations seem to imply that green models were the earliest production with the red seats models mixed in with green seats batches in the last couple of years of the casting so perhaps its not an accurate reflection of the timeline to list all the red seats versions first!

Mike, sometimes it is very difficult to determine the correct time sequence in production. Especially when someone has found in the storeroom an old part and then it was used in production. So was created a model that does not have a logical explanation and does not match to any list.
Antonin

kerbside wrote:Hello Antonin, I sure have a long way to go to catch up with your variation on wheels, it is also noticeable that almost all the wheel variations
are on the models with a Green interior.

Your one with Red interior and the 9 x 20 GPW is the 1st I have ever seen that's how I feel.

George T.

George, I have the same feeling , when I see a model which I have not in my collection
Antonin

Diecast wrote:

SMS88 wrote:

Diecast wrote:My proposal of the new list of 38b.
Antonin

The wheel variations and box variations seem to imply that green models were the earliest production with the red seats models mixed in with green seats batches in the last couple of years of the casting so perhaps its not an accurate reflection of the timeline to list all the red seats versions first!

Mike, sometimes it is very difficult to determine the correct time sequence in production. Especially when someone has found in the storeroom an old part and then it was used in production. So was created a model that does not have a logical explanation and does not match to any list.
Antonin

Do you mean that you believe the red seats gpw +spw models were made first before the green seats models and that a few pallets of red seats were found just before the 38b was deleted for the short run of red seats with bpw???

It's quite possible, but everything is just speculation and hypothesis
Antonin

SMS88 wrote:Do you mean that you believe the red seats gpw +spw models were made first before the green seats models and that a few pallets of red seats were found just before the 38b was deleted for the short run of red seats with bpw???

We have seen plenty of examples of stockroom emptying immediately prior to deletion with other models, so why not with the 38b too? It sounds plausible to me.

Idris wrote:

SMS88 wrote:Do you mean that you believe the red seats gpw +spw models were made first before the green seats models and that a few pallets of red seats were found just before the 38b was deleted for the short run of red seats with bpw???

We have seen plenty of examples of stockroom emptying immediately prior to deletion with other models, so why not with the 38b too? It sounds plausible to me.

What we can say about 1963, the year this casting was introduced, Lesney did show a preference for putting spw not gpw or bpw on many of their cars. Perhaps the 1st run of 38b was red seats mostly with spw but a wheel shortage during the run required a small quantity to be made with gpw.then follows 3 years of production with all sorts of wheels always with green seats. And when the model was deleted they used up unused red seats stored on pallets in combination with fine tread bpw making a last run with mixed seat colours but only fine tread bpw.
That puts all the green seats variations in a block after the red seats with the last code being red seats with fine bpw

SMS88 wrote:Vectis appear not to have sold any gpw 38b with red interior according to Nick´s listing but one of the cars in Nick´s group photo looks like gpw with red seats otherwise I would be wondering if this is a fictional variation! Perhaps kwakers can remember whether or not the red seats versions showed up 2 years or more after the 1st green seat versions. Green seats seem plentiful with gpw,spw or bpw with red seats versions plentiful only with spw - red seats with bpw appears to be very late production with E boxes

I have never seen a live 38B red interior w/ GPW either although I seem to recall that Vectis did have one at auction about 3 or 4 MB auctions ago earlier this year.

Bill

I missed this Post while away guys, so here goes some info Mick asked me for in a much earlier Post. Because our earliest Ladd Model Works Guide from 1967 gave no interior color on this 38B, I can only say that my personal experience is that a possible pre-production Vauxhall Wagon with pure white seats was the first to be sent to our U.S. distributor Fred Bronner in New York. I held this original model in my hands in 1969 and had 2 different chances to own it myself. I am sure it had black plastic wheels, so it MAY have been the 'knobby' 8X18 Nick has listed as his code 1 for this model.
I regard my own 8X18 'Knobby' BPW Wagon as the earliest variation I now own, pre-dating the finer 9X20 GPW wheels. I believe Antonin's 9X20 GPW is very rare, we have never owned one of these. The pure white interior from Bronner's display had Black wheels, so I believe Nick's Guide is now accurate in my opinion.
I can also state that both color interiors were found packaged together in our later U.S. shipments, and that Nick's timeline of these coarse small knobby wheels leading to the later finer 9X24 tread tires is also correct. Why these wheels were made in both Black and in gray plastic early on, I cannot say. I can only add that I have examples of the 9X24 GPW with 'Fat' Tires, and also with 'thin' 9X24 GPW with green plastic seats. We also have two examples of 'Error Pieces' with 'thin' tires on the rear axle, and with 'fat' tires mixed on the front axle.
In it's later form the 38B came with either light or dark red interiors, and also with either thin or thick fine 9X36 BPW on them. Perhaps Antonin has those 2 very different tire widths listed on his proposed listing?
The very large 10X36 GPW are very hard to find in any condition, I suspect George's could have come out of a mutual friend's collection he is liquidating. You outbid me on that one George if it was John's....
For the first time in my life I have to say I like Nick's present listings as they are over my friend Antonin's more organized version......Is Nick's Guide Confusing?, a bit. Accurate? VERY! They agree with kwaker's memory and experience on these 38Bs as being All mixed up as found in our U.S. stores............kwakers

I also have a green seats 38b with 2 fat 9x24gpw on the front axle and 2 thin 9x24 gpw on the back axle -certainly different design wheels of same diameter! I probably see 3 or 4 green seated examples with any sort of wheels for every red seat example here which always have spw to date......

I did forget to state that my early 8X18 knobby BPW version of this 38B has a green interior in it rather than a red one. My opinion that the two different color interiors were mixed in all through production is because we found them that way in their original boxes on the shelves of many stores. When we looked through a store's stock, we may have found 4 with red interior and then 6 with white interior on their shelves. Another store may have been just the opposite with more red interiors than white, but they all seemed to be mixed together in the fine BPW era I remember best. (1966-67?) Because we have examples of the same early tire colors and tread progressions with both color interiors, it seems that the interior mixtures we found in our U.S. stores may have been common production mixing as far back as 1963. We started seriously collecting in 1964, so our ten different types of 38Bs may have been found over a longer period of time than just 1964-1967, when the Honda and Trailer replaced this Vauxhall Wagon. Nick's listings reflect this mixture, as crazy as it may seem today.
That mixed fat and thin tires seemed to have been quite common Mick, I have misplaced 3 sets of calipers around the house so I cannot give accurate dimensions for others to go by. They are 2 very different tire widths though, and are easy to spot by eye when you check your 38B models for them. kwakers