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SMS88 wrote:All these faked non existent variations showing up for sale for me highlights the vital importance of good honest listings like Nick´s & Christian´s being available so that collectors are aware that variations not accredited by the respected elements of the collector community are most likely FAKES or CUSTOMS.

Yes but you miss one vital underlying fact, both of these lists are corrupted.

Take for example (just one of many!) the listing on this very site regarding the 46 Guy Removals van in green with two line Pickfords. It is proudly displayed as being authentic (code 10 in the sites listing! Though code 3 would be more appropriate) whereas UK Matchbox confirms for us & I quote “the excess 2-line decals were sold separately, so a model could have been ‘made’ at a later date”. Time & time again I see on this site, printed guides such as Ramseys, Mack & other internet lists showing fakes as real! It’s why I despair at the state of the hobby today, even the trusted sources are getting the facts mixed up. How a new collector wanting to collect rarer issues copes with this sort of inconsistency I don’t know.

David Tilley wrote:I have seen this seller's stuff, and there may be odd real models in there, but because of the fake stuff I cannot bring myself to even bid on the lower end common stuff.

I also started thinking so, he had one Bronze Rover 3500 with AMBER windows (does that even exist... ?), which were also cracked at borders and looked just plain weird so I passed. If it was however, genuine and in mint condition I would probably have placed a bid. Thank you guys for making it more clear, I myself too started wondering when a lot of listings of said seller started popping in up recently classed as PRE-PRO's, RARE even claimed to be Made in Brazil and so on!

He also has an endless supply of Black engined Modrods. Easy to fake, easy to sell!!

RacingFreak wrote:Thank you guys for making it more clear, I myself too started wondering when a lot of listings of said seller started popping in up recently classed as PRE-PRO's, RARE even claimed to be Made in Brazil and so on!

A confidence trickster offers real authentic rarities amongst the fakes, please concentrate on the variations brought to light & please avoid making sweeping suppositions unless if you know something for certain.

scmcollection wrote:

RacingFreak wrote:Thank you guys for making it more clear, I myself too started wondering when a lot of listings of said seller started popping in up recently classed as PRE-PRO's, RARE even claimed to be Made in Brazil and so on!

A confidence trickster offers real authentic rarities amongst the fakes, please concentrate on the variations brought to light & please avoid making sweeping suppositions unless if you know something for certain.

If my recollection serves me right, this UK seller was exposed on the original forum for selling custom SF's bought from a well known Greek Customiser and passing them off as genuine Brazilian issues, in the process making hundreds of pounds on each model.

The original greek customiser exposed the miselling and to my knowledge challenged the UK seller about it......I am not sure what the outcome was on that one though. Ever since then i have stayed well clear of the uk seller.

motorman wrote:

scmcollection wrote:

RacingFreak wrote:Thank you guys for making it more clear, I myself too started wondering when a lot of listings of said seller started popping in up recently classed as PRE-PRO's, RARE even claimed to be Made in Brazil and so on!

A confidence trickster offers real authentic rarities amongst the fakes, please concentrate on the variations brought to light & please avoid making sweeping suppositions unless if you know something for certain.

If my recollection serves me right, this UK seller was exposed on the original forum for selling custom SF's bought from a well known Greek Customiser and passing them off as genuine Brazilian issues, in the process making hundreds of pounds on each model.

The original greek customiser exposed the miselling and to my knowledge challenged the UK seller about it......I am not what the outcome was on that one though. Ever since then i have stayed well clear of the uk seller.

Yes that sounds very familiar. I'm not sure there was an outcome, either way re-arrange the well know phrase "wouldn't a pole touch it with barge"

scmcollection wrote:

SMS88 wrote:All these faked non existent variations showing up for sale for me highlights the vital importance of good honest listings like Nick´s & Christian´s being available so that collectors are aware that variations not accredited by the respected elements of the collector community are most likely FAKES or CUSTOMS.

Yes but you miss one vital underlying fact, both of these lists are corrupted.

Take for example (just one of many!) the listing on this very site regarding the 46 Guy Removals van in green with two line Pickfords. It is proudly displayed as being authentic (code 10 in the sites listing! Though code 3 would be more appropriate) whereas UK Matchbox confirms for us & I quote “the excess 2-line decals were sold separately, so a model could have been ‘made’ at a later date”. Time & time again I see on this site, printed guides such as Ramseys, Mack & other internet lists showing fakes as real! It’s why I despair at the state of the hobby today, even the trusted sources are getting the facts mixed up. How a new collector wanting to collect rarer issues copes with this sort of inconsistency I don’t know.

I cannot speak much from the RW aspect of the hobby but I agree there is no “perfect” Superfast guide out there. I was excited when Nick started his guide here but there are a few errors and inconsistencies I hope get corrected. It is definitely one of the more accurate and complete listings out there. It seems like the updates to Nicks guide have become stagnant but I hope they continue soon.

Regarding Christian, I do not think he has the goal of becoming a definitive source or list of models, but that is a better question to ask him. Regardless, he has one of the most useful sites out there because it is so photo-intensive and I use it regularly. It would be very difficult to assess if a model is genuine based on a photo alone and I doubt he has been able to handle all the models he has pictures of and must often accept pictures based on faith/trust. I have noticed he has removed a lot of the bad apples from the site. I see he still has a bad model accredited to me I posted on another forum before I knew better of it. I asked him to remove a while ago but I assume he gets busy and does not have as much free time as he likes. I appreciate that he keeps the site going and his dedication to the hobby is obvious.

http://www.mboxcommunity.com/cfalkens/M ... b-f05a.jpg

http://www.mboxcommunity.com/cfalkens/M ... f05bpl.jpg

Mack is also imperfect but a good one. It is not as complete as I like and I am skeptical of his seemingly endless variations of the 36B Draguar in pink with foil labels (I think these are lunchtime specials or made from left over labels) and I have never found the red 40B Horsebox he lists (I think this may be a Brazilian model he mistook as Lesney). But another good tool to have in the Superfast quest.

Making a Superfast guide is a huge undertaking, especially considering how easy it is to swap some components, subjective interpretation of shade differences and subtle casting/wheel variaitons. It is getting harder as time goes on as there are fewer models retained in their original packaging and time is altering the color and characteristics of the paint and plastics. This is causing new body shades, “amber” and “green” window models to suddenly appear! Further, where do you draw a line between some wheel errors and wheel variations,

I don’t expect any guide to be perfect, perfection I believe to be somewhat unattainable in this field since nothing was catalogued by the factory and let’s not forget they were & still are just pocket money toys. My gripe is that new variations are being added without any real scrutiny, many of which are fabricated privately to make a fast & dishonest $.

On the Draguars I would have to agree with you in your observation that the pink ones with label are not genuine factory produced variations. I was told that the Draguar labels were available in the early 80s on the British swap meet scene & I have seen at least one unused roll of them in a private collection.

On the subject of surplus labels it should be noted that SCORPION labels were seen on the swapmeets in the UK in the early 1980s… I for one believe that the genuine Scorpion models are (in order of rarity) the Mod Rod, Blue Shark, Road dragster, Hairy Hustler, Turbo Fury & the Porsche 910 (scorpion label on the front) also if you look at them there is a definite logic & pattern behind them that does not exist with the other Scorpion labeled models that have appeared over the years.

The red Horse Box you mention I always figured was an error in Macks listing, I have never seen a production (or pre-production) in that colour and as you rightly mention the only red one is indeed the Inbrima one.

I appreciate that the task of a guide is not an easy one I just hope that the bad eggs can be removed.

scmcollection wrote:I don’t expect any guide to be perfect, perfection I believe to be somewhat unattainable in this field since nothing was catalogued by the factory and let’s not forget they were & still are just pocket money toys. My gripe is that new variations are being added without any real scrutiny, many of which are fabricated privately to make a fast & dishonest $.

On the Draguars I would have to agree with you in your observation that the pink ones with label are not genuine factory produced variations. I was told that the Draguar labels were available in the early 80s on the British swap meet scene & I have seen at least one unused roll of them in a private collection.

I appreciate that the task of a guide is not an easy one I just hope that the bad eggs can be removed.

Perhaps the answer for Nick´s listings at least is a prominently displayed page listing all fake variations + commonly/easily faked genuine variations so that learners can expect to be offered fakes of listed models!

Mick,

Good idea but I think that would end up being more than a page, more like a whole new site.

The way things seem to be going I think you'd be better to just put a warning note under any listing that has stickers/labels/decals or easily changed parts - something along the lines of 'beware of fakes'.


Si