69c Rolls Royce Silver Shadow

[GHOSTHUNTER]

Hi there nearlymint,

It's certainly feasible now that we have seen the 'curved' hinge-arm on your 'pre-pro' 69c, it could have just made it onto full production models, before the 'arm' was strengthened, giving it that straight inner design, (as shown on my earliest 69c), but without seeing the 'hinge-arms' on the other 'pre-pro' 69c models, I would not like to say a definite yes to this and all this is of course tied-in to the #24c Silver Shadow saloon, which has the curved 'arm' from the regular wheel version, but changing to the straight 'arm' when it was converted to 'Superfast' wheels.

I can not say for sure if the 'hinge-arm' modification was done at the same time as the 'Superfast' wheel conversion on #24c, I don't have an example of the very first model with 'Superfast' wheels on the regular wheel body, (in cherry-red and waistline trimstrip) I have the first body without the side trim strip and that has the straight 'hinge-arm'.

Do you know if other forum members have 'pre-pro' 69c models that would be happy to share their boot photos!

Regards,
GHOSTHUNTER.

[nearlymint]

Hi Ghosty,
I never checked my early one.

69 boot

69cboot.jpg (81.12 KiB) Viewed 1257 times

24c

24.jpg (75.09 KiB) Viewed 1253 times

My early 24c .
J

[GHOSTHUNTER]

AH!...WELL DONE.

So, the curved 'hinge-arm' did find it's way onto the full production models and not just any old full production models, but the early 'long seat' version. This is good news and bad news...I can complete the listing of these models in the correct order, but I now have to go out and look for another long seat version 69c with curved 'hinge-arms' and when I find one, I will have to re-number all my blue models by moving them one place to the right...

Cheers Jason, you have just moved up a couple of places on my Christmas card list

Ghosty.

[GHOSTHUNTER]

A MYSTERY MODEL....JPG (26.43 KiB) Viewed 1231 times

Welcome back to this interesting thread on the #69c, Rolls-Royce Silver Shadow 'Droptop'. You have seen the model shown here earlier in the thread, but in the capacity of a very early version, because of the seats component, a compnonent known to have been used in the preproduction models of 69c, a component I describe as 'Long Seat' because of the inner extensions behind the rear seat,(just visible inside the rear wheel-arches in this picture) and at the time of my original posting, the only example being highlighted on this forum.

Since then, two other examples have been aquired by forum members and I already had some pictures of a fourth example, off the internet.

I have now concluded some extra research into this model and with information supplied by "chfalkensteiner", "SMS88", "nearlymint" and "motorman", I now know where in the 'Time-Line' these models can be placed.

Because of the 'Long Seat' moulding, I had always placed it as the first version to be made, (the seats matched the 'preproduction' models), but they have treads around the outer edge of the tyres and my 'Long Seat' version has all smooth tyres. The boot 'Hinge-Arms' were also to play a part in this research, along with moulding numbers on the inside of the wheels.

Part of my research involved a complete re-number of all my blue 69c models into their 'Twin' castings, so I had an 'A-LINE' and a 'B-LINE' and it was quite amazing how they matched-up, even the pale yellow baseplates were exactly side by side and my 'Long Seat' model found it's own place in the 'A-LINE' with a matching model in the 'B-LINE' but with the normal short seat component and wheel numbers, body castings, boot 'Hinge-Arms' and the all important casting faults and surface imperfections, confirmed where each model was in both 'Time-Lines'.

Out of all this, my 'Long Seat' model is at least four versions away from the 'Pre-Pro' models, meaning three models were made before the 'Long Seat' version.

The example owned by "motorman" has the same specification as my example, but the example owned by "nearlymint" has the earlier curved boot 'Hinge-Arms' and a curved back-wall to floor join and I have not yet tried to place it in the 'Time-Line' but I am sure it will fit-in pretty close to where mine is.

Pictures will be posted of all my blue models in their corrected 'Time-Line' positions with some more notes as soon as I can.

Thank's to all the forum members who have helped with information and pictures of these models.

Regards,
GHOSTHUNTER.

[GHOSTHUNTER]

General comments on the mystery model in the posting above.

By splitting the collection into two seperate listings, it does suggest that the dark orange seat moulding used in one of the known 'Pre-Pro' 69c models, was not used on full production models until later in the model's life cycle, and they were just sitting in storage until such time a further stock of the seat mouldings were required, something "SMS88" suggested may have been the case in an earlier posting.

The smooth, un-treaded tyres on the mystery model, also takes it away from the 'Pre-Pro' and first full production models specification, the wheel moulding numbers and the boot 'Hinge-Arms' all confirm it's distance from those models.

The example owned by "motorman" appears to have the same specification as my example, but the example owned by "nearlymint" has the curved 'Hinge-Arms' and the curved back-wall to boot floor join. The 'Hinge-Arms' may be some old stock being used up, but the boot floor join may put the model before or after my example, I have not had chance to check this and see where his model will likely be in the 'Time-Line'.

GHOSTHUNTER.

[nearlymint]

Hi Ghosty,
Found this one tucked away in box, short interior with the curved boot hinge.

69c

69c.jpg (87.89 KiB) Viewed 1213 times

Jason

[GHOSTHUNTER]

Thank's Jason, it looks like that last one you have posted will be the very first version, especially if the wheels are solid with edge treads.

I will be posting more pictures of my revised collection of these blue models, displayed as two rows of models, not the one row that I normally do with Matchbox, with the exception of some 'Models of Yesteryear', (that do sit better as two rows, I.E. because of twin castings, as mentioned by SMS88 in an early posting) and because we now know what model is the first and what model is the last, (before the 'Gold' one), our models with the 'Long Seat' moulding are several versions away from the 'Pre-Pro' models, but because we know of four examples, (our two, "motorman's" example and one I had pictures of on my PC before all these postings about it!) it seems they are certainly a genuine odd variation, made with a stock of 'Preproduction' seat mouldings.

Cheers Jason, I'll be back soon with pictures,
GHOSTHUNTER.

[SMS88]

When Lesney were getting going launching Superfast we know from the 40 years book that they ordered runs of at least ½ million cars at a time for new models. This means the foundry & paint shop would produce at least ½ million castings, the plastics department would make ½ million seats,screens + folded tops, the wheels line would take at least 1 million axles and fit them to plastic clips. Then all these palleted boxes of components would be taken for final assembley which could be weeks or longer after they had actually been manufactured.The evidence shows us that components for a specific production run were not used in the order that they had been made,the handiest tins were used first so the few thousand long support seat sets made to test the seat mould could have been incorporated into that run of at least ½ million cars at any random point,as could wheels from the handful of wheel moulds in use at the time which smooth or treaded edges - today looking back what we can conclude is that cars are or are not probable first run production.2nd or 3rd or subsequent runs could include pallets of parts leftover from previous production runs but it appears they would only be taken from storage if new supplies ran out or it was the final run of a soon to be deleted model

[GHOSTHUNTER]

At last I have got a picture of the re-numbered blue #69c models in my collection. The early talking point on these models was the two distinct body castings, giving a disjointed 'time-line' when they were displayed in a single line, as most of us would have displayed them. However, the idea behind having them displayed as two seperate displays, has shown that the two body castings fall into place with an 'A-LINE' and a 'B-LINE' 'Twinned' as matching pairs. This has put a previously identified very early issue in its correct place and not a very early issue at all. "SMS88" suggested this version (with a 'long seat' moulding), must have been produced later than I originally thought, purely because of the wheel mould numbers and by sorting the models into two lines, they actually paired themselves together really well, even two pale yellow base issues, suddenly became a matched pair, which in the picture below are models at A9, and B9, and the rest of these two model's specification matches, like the wheel mould numbers.

Included in the display are my only two 'Beater' models, simply because there was a place for them and by displaying all the models in this way, I can instantly see what issues are missing and I had previously stated in an earlier post, I only had three or four blue models to get, to consider the collection to be complete, if you count the empty spaces...there are four gaps, waiting to be filled!

Getting back to the 'Long seat' model, it is the model at A5, four issues away from the 'Preproduction' models, nowhere near as early as it first seemed to be.

I would like to thank "SMS88" for his wheel mould number knowledge and general suggestions during these postings and "motorman" and "nearlymint" for supplying pictures, discovering more examples of the 'Long seat' version and their enthusiasm.

GHOSTHUNTER.

[motorman]

Ghosty,

I think the thanks should go to you mate for putting so much time into this subject, which i have to say i have found quite facinating.

I am very happy to own one of these long seat verions and had you not started this post i would not be aware that i had something that little bit different in my collection. So hats off to you mate!!

Cheers