#45a Vauxhall Victor Dash Brace Question

[matchbox_n_molars]

It is a very rare model. Originally this casting WITHOUT a look-a-like dash panel was thought to exist only on models painted Red. It is relatively recent that this casting was discovered to have also been painted in Yellow, but in far fewer numbers.
Ghosthunter.

Far fewer yellow examples? Is that really the consensus on the status of these castings without the dash panel? Obviously George has one (and "Hello" George!), I have one I purchased from the "Grizzly" vectis auction a couple of years back, and there is this one here. I had assumed there were probably several yellow ones that slip through the cracks because so few of us ever focus on such casting details.
And by the way Ghosty, I'm still on the prowl for one of those lovely elusive red ones too. And we're in a long queue.

[GHOSTHUNTER]

Hi Greg, thank's for the comments. As much as I would like to be in the queue for a Red Victor, there is very little chance I would have the funding for one if and when it turns up...

Given a poll, I am sure the general concensus would be that far fewer Yellow Victors are known about or have been seen compared to the Red one despite the fact You have pointed out Three examples on the forum but no Red examples on the forum!

The Red Victor is widely known about but is always connected to a premium price, so only the lucky few own them, the Yellow Victor is still so unknown it does not fetch a premium price, simply because while they are out there in the collecting community and turning up through sales outlets (Auction Houses and toy fairs etc), it slips through as just a regular Yellow Victor and its only those collectors that are aware of this elusive version that have it on their minds when prospecting for models as has just happened with Tim at the recent NEC Birmingham toy fair and since that happened I have not been talking to Tim because he turned down my instant offer to buy the model offering to double what he paid for it...

Ghosty.

[Idris]

It is a very rare model. Originally this casting WITHOUT a look-a-like dash panel was thought to exist only on models painted Red. It is relatively recent that this casting was discovered to have also been painted in Yellow, but in far fewer numbers.
Ghosthunter.

Far fewer yellow examples? Is that really the consensus on the status of these castings without the dash panel?

The red Victor is easily spotted but, as has been pointed out, the same is not true of the yellow ‘no dashboard’ models. Furthermore, the yellow version comes with two different bonnet interiors, indicating use of the remaindered initial run body castings (used for the red version), plus all the body castings from a second run. So, solely on that basis, the conclusion has to be that there should be more yellow ‘no dashboard’ Victors around than red ones.

[GHOSTHUNTER]

I agree, there should be more Yellow than Red Victors, but there isn't. I look at every metal wheeled Yellow Victor at toy fairs and have never seen one and I have been going to toy fairs since the early 1980's.

Where are they all hiding...?

Ghosthunter.

[fixer]

Germany

[Idris]

I agree, there should be more Yellow than Red Victors, but there isn't. I look at every metal wheeled Yellow Victor at toy fairs and have never seen one and I have been going to toy fairs since the early 1980's.

...and how many red ones have you seen in all that time?

[tjlglass]

How long do you think a red Victor would last on a toy fair table as opposed to a yellow no brace ?

[Idris]

How long do you think a red Victor would last on a toy fair table as opposed to a yellow no brace ?

That would obviously depend on the price!
The point I'm trying to make is that they are both rare beasts, and the fact that the yellow one is slightly more common than the red one doesn't mean that it is therefore easy to find. In addition, there will be other collectors combing the stock of playworn Victors looking for the 'no dashboard' version, thereby significantly reducing the chances of discovering one. I have only ever found one at a toyfair, plus a second one at a classic car parts autojumble. (Luckily, one was with under-bonnet pips and the other was without.)
Tis variation is significantly harder to find than the braceless 30c, and how often do those turn up?

[GHOSTHUNTER]

I agree, there should be more Yellow than Red Victors, but there isn't. I look at every metal wheeled Yellow Victor at toy fairs and have never seen one and I have been going to toy fairs since the early 1980's.

...and how many red ones have you seen in all that time?

2 at toy fairs closely gaurded by the dealers hoping to sell them and several on auction house websites!

Ghosthunter.

[yellowfoden]

I agree, there should be more Yellow than Red Victors, but there isn't. I look at every metal wheeled Yellow Victor at toy fairs and have never seen one and I have been going to toy fairs since the early 1980's.
Where are they all hiding...?
Ghosthunter.

As a collector who rather likes the internal casting variations in seeing how and why castings changed or evolved here are some details collated over the years.
Over the past years on the VBD more than ten 45a yellow NO brace versions have been mentioned by their owners. Some have included photos.

45a yellow NO brace
Breaking this down a bit further
One found in Canada
Two found in Australia, one known to have been shipped by Lesney to AU
Three found in UK (1 in Scotland) ( one on its way to USA)
Multiples found in Europe
1 resides in USA

With the 45a red Vauxhall bought to our attention on the forum the count is 10 perhaps more
Two found by Christian
Three found in UK one has been shown on forum
One shown on forum upper body only with broken front slot, country unknown
One shown upper body country unknown
One found in UK made its way to Australia
One from Canada sent to Australia
One in South Africa

So as you can see numbers are similar and that is only data from VBD. What is important to understand though while this information indicates the country found does not mean that is where Lesney originally sent the model to be sold retail.
In Australia many people who emigrated from the UK and bought toys with them could quite easily have bought models from Germany before coming to Australia.

What is missing here is just how many of the yellow NO braced versions mentioned are the same bonnet casting as the red or if they have no brace and pips as listed as bonnet type 1a. I know of at least three 45a yellow no brace WITH pips within forum.

From memory I think John N from the Netherlands showed us a RED 45a without brace but with pips but I can not recall if the conclusion was factory, Christian may recall.
I remember Christian also saying he had handled more yellow NO brace versions than he had RED 45a

Bert