24c Rolls Royce Silver Shadow

[GHOSTHUNTER]

Looks like another model where we can tear up the existing variations list and start again.....

I would be happy to list all of the 23 versions in my collection, but none of them are coded to Nick's listing.

That's probably a good starting point. Does it already contain all of Antonin's casting variations?

Very likely, but how we each describe various details may cause some confusion, especially around the inside of the boot regards hinge openings/apertures/cut-outs etc.

I will claim here to have 23 versions, if Antonin comes here and tells us how many versions he has, we can move on to a listing.

Ghosthunter.

[GHOSTHUNTER]

...so the question is, how many are there...

The question is...png (321.56 KiB) Viewed 6343 times

Ghosthunter.

[Diecast]

That's probably a good starting point. Does it already contain all of Antonin's casting variations?

Very likely, but how we each describe various details may cause some confusion, especially around the inside of the boot regards hinge openings/apertures/cut-outs etc.

I will claim here to have 23 versions, if Antonin comes here and tells us how many versions he has, we can move on to a listing.

Ghosthunter.[/quote]

I agree with you, we should together rewrite an old list of 24c. As I have checked my models I thought I have 12 variations, but now I am a little bit confused also, because I think, I have not defined all variables correctly.
First of all we have to define the number of variables:
1) in the boot
2) rear mudguard
3) rear rivet
4) windows rivet
5) base plate
6) bumper extension
7) body colours
8) base plate shades
9) wheels
10) suspension
Antonin

[Diecast]

yesterday I have found a new variation on the suspension:
a) single spring
b) double "luxury" spring
Antonin

[GHOSTHUNTER]

Hi Antonin.

The plastic strip used for suspension can be fitted both ways and the illustration in your second picture shows it has been fitted the wrong way round at the factory. The cut-out you see (represented by the Yellow line), is for bypassing the front pillar cast onto the underside of the bonnet. This little pillar is for the mounting of the grille/front bumper component, but all production models I have seen have a very short pillar, so there was no need for the plastic strip to be made like that.

There are however Two thickness for the suspension strip, because all early issues of the model have weak suspension as evidenced by the car sitting very low on it's wheels. A thicker plastic strip was introduced on models just after the introduction of the larger base rivet, to help with this design fault, so later models feel firmer on their suspension when you gently press down the model with a finger.

Ghosthunter.

[GHOSTHUNTER]

For clarity it is important we are all using and understanding the terminology of the details of this model. Taking Antonin's little list of 'Variables' First…

1) in the boot………....Hinge-arm cut-outs and an ejector circle on the back-wall. The size of the 'Cut-Outs' is not too easy to see, but the ejector circle is.
2) rear mudguard…..…This concerns a brace on the inside and I refer to this as the inner rear wheel-arch brace. This is easy to see.
3) rear rivet………….….This concerns the size of the 'Flaring' when rivet has been spun down to the baseplate. Early issues have a small 'Flare' while later issues have a large 'Flare'.
This is easy to see.
4) windows rivet…....This is the inner roof rivet for securing the window moulding and I prefer to use the term Glazing. This is easy to see.
5) base plate…………...Different baseplate designs are evident with or without detail such as the towing facility and the patent number. These are easy to see.
6) bumper extension…The little panel at the lower front of the car looking like a tiny number plate. I prefer to call this 'Part 1' of the towing facility. This is easy to see.
7) body colours…….….4 distinct colours have been found for the main body. This will always be debatable, but I limit it to just the 4 shades I can see easily.
8) base plate shades..The baseplate can be found painted in Gloss, Satin or Matt Black. These are easy to see.
9) wheels……………..…3 designs were used for this model. These are easy to see.
10) suspension..……..This will be weak or strong and achieved by the use of 2 thicknesses of the plastic strip. The thickness of the strip is not easy to see.

Additional to the list, Antonin has highlighted some internal brace details around the rear section of the interior moulding. This is not easy to see and Antonin has done his best to show this in his pictures.

Additional to the list, I have detailed the 2 moulding circles in the glazing above the front seat being level or staggered regards their position and I have also detailed the axle-ends as being matched or opposed.

Arguably the colour of the interior is light or dark Cream and this can be seen in pictures of this model posted on the forum so far, but I have not actually defined this for the models in my collection, deeming the difference not enough for a variation coding.

Does the above meet approval with the members, or do you want any changes or additions.

Ghosthunter.

[Diecast]

Thanks Kevin for nice explanation of the terminology. I will try to add some details about "variables". Please add your comment to it. It would be nice that all guys here will add their comments to the topic also.
Antonin

[GHOSTHUNTER]

I think we should now look at Nick's listing.


Using models from my collection, the first 11 codes would be presented like this...

Light Pink
Code 1, light Pink, gloss base, small base rivet, high hinge-arm cut-outs, no towing facility, weak suspension, push-in wheel rim, level glazing circles, near-side large axle-ends.
Code 2, light Pink gloss base, small base rivet, high hinge-arm cut-outs, no towing facility, weak suspension, push-in wheel rim, staggered glazing circles, near-side large axle-ends.
Dark Pink
Code 3, dark Pink gloss base, small base rivet, low hinge-arm cut-outs, no towing facility, weak suspension, push-in wheel rim, level glazing circles, near-side large axle-ends.
Code 4, dark Pink, gloss base, large base rivet, low hinge-arm cut-outs, no towing facility, weak suspension, push-in wheel rim, staggered glazing circles, near-side large axle-ends.
Code 5, dark Pink, gloss base, large base rivet, low hinge-arm cut-outs, no towing facility, weak suspension, push-in wheel rim, staggered glazing circles, opposed large axle-ends.
Code 6, dark Pink, gloss base, large base rivet, low hinge-arm cut-outs, no towing facility, weak suspension, push-in wheel rim, staggered glazing circles, off-side large axle-ends.
Code 7, dark Pink, gloss base, large base rivet, low hinge-arm cut-outs, no towing facility, weak suspension, push-in wheel rim, staggered glazing circles, near-side large axle-ends.
Code 8, dark Pink, gloss base, large base rivet, low hinge-arm cut-outs, no towing facility, weak suspension, push-in wheel rim, staggered glazing circles, opposing large axle-ends.
Light Cherry Red
Code 9, light Cherry Red, satin base, large base rivet, low hinge-arm cut-outs, no towing facility, weak suspension, push-in wheel rim, level glazing circles, near-side large axle-ends.
Code 10, light Cherry Red, satin base, large base rivet, low hinge-arm cut-outs, no towing facility, weak suspension, push-in wheel rim, staggered glazing circles, near-side large axle-ends.
Code 11, light Cherry Red, gloss base, large base rivet, low hinge-arm cut-outs, 1st part of towing facility, weak suspension, push-in wheel rim, level glazing circles, opposed large axle-ends.

The model at Code 11 needs checking for it's base colour, my paper notes for it are damaged right at that point of information, so it could be satin or gloss, I will check this.

The above issues stop at the first version to have the 'Bumper Extension' (what I class as the 1st part of the towing facility), so just from these 11 versions so far it was difficult matching them to Nick's listing.

Do members understand my interpretation of the details, if yes, do you want the rest of the versions from 12 onwards to be listed ?

Ghosthunter.

[GHOSTHUNTER]

A lot of valuable information on this model was discussed here...viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2221&hilit=%2324c+R ... ver+Shadow

It is a model very close to my Heart having grown up with an example brought for me as a Child and in later Years when I started collecting more seriously, it is a model I have thouroghly researched with the available tools to hand, a vast collection of them and the fun of putting them into a production 'Time-Line'.

It is always exciting when another previously unknown (so presumably un-recorded), variation is discovered (larger tyres example), and then of course the advent of the internet and forums such as this one we are now enjoying, has made the hobby so much more exciting, because now other collectors of the same model can enjoy the findings and with a bit of luck, the enthusiasm and detailed collection listings can be combined to offer new collectors a well informed data Bank.

The code listing many collectors of this model have been using is now ready for updating, because even if not every single version from my own collection is added, it is clear the First entries need to be redone to take into account the light and dark Pink issues.

The One version that may not be included in a new listing, is my dark Cherry Red model, until more examples are found, it will sadly remain a single example with nowhere to go...

Ghosthunter.

[Diecast]

Thanks Kevin for the valuable information, we have discussed before. Sorry, I'm very busy now, so I do not have much time to post here. I would suggest to make a summary of all variables, we know up till now, e.g.
ad 1) boot
a) without an ejector ring, large gap
b) without an ejector ring, small gap
c) without an ejector ring, small gap (and "the structure behind")
d) with an ejector ring, small gap (and "the structure behind")
I think that the variable 2)rear mudguard & 3)rear rivet, should be covered by one variable: the variable of the body

Than we should introduce the second variable: the variable of the base plate.
I think there are four variation of the base plate:
a) no patent number, no tow guides
b) no patent number, with tow guides
c) with patent number, with tow guides
d) with patent number, with larger left tow guide and repaired base plate

This is only a proposal, there is more variables.

I would suggest to split the variation to the "hardware" variations e.g. casting variations of the body, type of the wheels, rivets...
and "software" variations (which are the subject of the subjective assessment) e.g. colours or shades ( soot black, flat black, satin black, glossy black..)
For hardware I would suggest number index 1,2,3,.. and for software alphabetic index a,b,c,..
Antonin