28c Jaguar Mk. 10

[Diecast]

window with:
a) one front ejector ring
b) two front ejector rings

[Diecast]

some of the base plate/wheels variations:
a) three lines/ BPW ø10x36
b) three lines/ GPW ø10x36
c) four lines/ GPW ø10x36
d) four lines/ BPW ø10x36
e) four lines/ BPW ø9x36
Antonin

[kwakers]

Thank You for your updates with pictures Diecast. It has been a very long time since this Jaguar's listings have been updated, and I now see you have the GPW 4 line base I mentioned that I had always suspected was produced. This model is indeed a rare one that I have been searching for since 1970, even rarer than the odd early 3 line base version. I see that Nick has even mentioned some of your internal casting variations in his Guide's listings, is there a way to see them with the base on? I know you did mention the rivet brace can be seen through the wheel well, so at lest that casting change needs to be cataloged when updating Nick's listings.
The window glaze types are also very easy to see, would it be possible to put together an updated variation list to have Forum members review on these Jaguars Antonin?
I also see the interesting model Nick now has pictured without it's glaze and with hand painted silver trim on it. There is no credit on the picture, and I suspect it was a very early model used for catalog pictures that was assembled by the R&D center especially for that purpose. It is a shame we don't know anything about the radiator support details or the base on that one, it is quite an interesting model with the roof rivet never spun. That fact seems to support the idea that this model was assembled intentionally that way from the factory.
I also see there have been no other comments as to how to treat the known rare three line variants Antonin has now shown us in his latest base picture. I was hoping for a bit more discussion concerning them as variations in Nick's listings, but I suspect their rarity means few other Forum members have examples like them in their collections. kwakers

[Diecast]

As I have checked my models I have found another unlisted variation of the silver trim:
a) no silver trim
b) silver trim to grill & headlights
c) silver trim to grill
Antonin

[Diecast]

I also see there have been no other comments as to how to treat the known rare three line variants Antonin has now shown us in his latest base picture. I was hoping for a bit more discussion concerning them as variations in Nick's listings, but I suspect their rarity means few other Forum members have examples like them in their collections. kwakers

I agree with Dick. This model is due to the unknown variations very underestimated and I would also expected stormy discussion here. I am enclosing a proposal of the new 28c-list. I do not mention a variation of painted/unpained engine and a variation with front lugs underneath the engine. I think that this variation is related to thin/thick motor braces. I have mentioned two Pre-Pro models and a have used codes "01" and "02". I tend to use the numeric codes "01", "02" because it will be easier to order it in Excel program (Code "P" is more logical, "0" is more practical). I assume the existence of the blue model. I do not know any details about it, blue or metallic blue?, wheels?, ....?
I expect some comments to a proposal of the new 28c-list.
Antonin

[kwakers]

This table looks like a Great piece of work as usual Antonin. The silver trim differences are new to most of us, but follow along the lines of Mike Stannard's notations, so they are a hit with me. The listings and their timeline look precise, so I like it.
To the negative of adding the known pre-pros to Nick's listings...... In the past when we have talked about early pre-pro colored R&D models we have kept pictures of them offline. I found it very interesting that Antonin recently showed us a blue colored pre-pro on another thread of a model that we now consider a "Complete" listing of known codes and castings. Blue must have been very popular at Lesney R&D because I have a blue #43 Horse Trailer with chisel cut rivets, crude looking single axle crimp that was in the collection of Joe Stone till 1975. Mr. Stone is known for having had lunch with Jack O'Dell on occasions, and being the source of the second reverse colored Wreckers that were done at the Lesney factory for his group of New York Collector friends. I was trading letters with Mr. Stone in 1970, a Bay Shore N.Y. resident who was very noted in the area as a veteran Lesney Collector.
A point I can now make is that by noting (Coding) and picturing such crudely done pre-pros here, are we inviting a "New avenue" of fraudster fakery to our hobby? When looking at the paint, the axles, and many points on these genuine known pre-pros, they would be very easy to Fake. They were crude paint trials that were generally done with fresh castings that were even stressed by throwing them on the floors to test their points of failure for casting upgrades. We have not seen any model like Nick's BPW #28 3 line base even though he added it to his listings a few years back, so I could be wrong in worrying about fakes with no provenance suddenly appearing in the future from questionable sources. Is it now time that some of these genuine pre-pros should be catalogued and added to Nick's listings for posterity? I love seeing these pre-pros come forward and be pictured as Antonin has, but I still have my own reservations about sharing mine as openly here as Antonin has with us. We have seen what has happened on a PRE-PRO (advertised as original in every detail right out of the factory) 23C Trailer with glaze in recent years, would we now be inviting more of the same shameful conduct on a different level to our hobby kwakers

[Idris]

Perhaps the biggest problem is that we now know that the the boundary between pre-production and production models is blurred rather than sharp. We have seen countless examples of what must have been late pre-production models (and components) being sent out with the initial release and sold through normal retail channels, e.g. turquoise M8 Car Transporter, SF 60 Lotus Super Seven with unmodified baseplate text, 71c Wreck Truck with clear glazing.
Some models are definitely pre-production, some models are definitely production, but what do we do with the crossovers (and how do we identify them with certainty?).

[GHOSTHUNTER]

The so called 'Cross-over' models could be classed as 'Early production' because I have often used the term 'Full Production' in many comments on the forum. To me a full production model is one that has been in production long enough to have a specification that can be found on several examples (12 and over), so we can tell from this that modifications or casting changes have settled down to not being required for a while.

Early production models may well show signs of Preproduction details, but deemed not far enough from specification to cause concern during a full production run.

That's how I see it.

Ghosthunter.

[nearlymint]

Hi Antonin,
Just checking a recent addition and the base studs on early models look like they were used to hold the bonnet in place, later the bonnet was fixed into the body with another system.
J