9a Dennis Fire Engine

[nearlymint]

Hi Hugh, the model I bought is the actual one that starts this dicussion.

[nearlymint]

Couple of extra pictures.

9a

9aa.jpg (33.88 KiB) Viewed 874 times

9a

9aaa.jpg (39.3 KiB) Viewed 874 times

J

[Idris]

Hmmm.....that crimp looks awfully shiny to me.

[nearlymint]

Hmmm.....that crimp looks awfully shiny to me.

Yes the flash makes it look a lot more, certainly no trace of paint at all on this crimp end.

9a

9a.jpg (46.51 KiB) Viewed 849 times

One for my unusual/question mark collection I think, I will put it next to the Nestles ERF
J

[yellowfoden]

Hi Jason, Hugh and all

I meant to ask Richy_rich for some more photos early in the peace especially of the crimped axle side front on view.
What is interesting about the dome side is the amount of paint build up, it almost looks like a ring of nuts on rim but these may just be paint bubbles. It also gives the impression that where the spokes meet the rim the joint (intersection) is rounded. However now that we see the other wheel crimped side front on with less paint we don’t see that rounded effect.

My first thought on these 13 spoke wheels were that they may be the same as the rag and bone Merchant cart. I think a close comparison is worth doing.

Like Jason the YY4 London fire engine was also checked but the raised section on the one shown by Jason is almost none existent on inner edge on mine. So this could be the wheel.

The unpainted crimped axle end did throw me a bit but the paint cover on that wheel is not any where near as thick as the dome side wheel. So it may have got a fine spray and has just worn away from play. Or perhaps this is where it was held while being painted.

I am open minded on this type of find as the crimp looks very good to be anything other than a factory crimp.

(side note: Some years ago I heard about a number 1a Aveling Road Roller that had been assembled with number 9a Fire Escape engine rear wheels. At the time I dismissed it as being odd, because why would you have skinny wheels on a road roller.
Recently I saw this model in full colour in a catalogue so I am thinking there may be more than one and while not a production model it looks to be actually factory done and it is listed as pre-pro)

Jason, could you also add the wheel and hub diameter to the thread of the wheels on your 9a if you have some callipers handy please. For reference the YY4 has 13.5mm and 3.9mm hub diam, rim width 1.45mm, hub length 3.8mm

Can someone please measure the wheels on Rag and Bone cart and add sizes to this thread. Thanks.

Hope that helps Jason,

Regards
Bert

[nearlymint]

Hi Bert,
Thankyou very much for time and info, I have also found a Y4 with this lip detail almost gone .

The 9a wheel diameter is 13.5mm and a 3.98mm hub diameter,rim width is 1.41mm,hub length 3.85mm

Covered wagon wheels
Front wheel diameter is 11.2mm and a 3.1mm hub diameter,rim width is 1.3mm,hub length 2.8mm

Rear wheel diameter is 13.35mm and a 3mm hub diameter,rim width is 1.5mm,hub length 3.7mm

Regards
Jason

[Idris]

Hmmm.....that crimp looks awfully shiny to me.

Yes the flash makes it look a lot more, certainly no trace of paint at all on this crimp end.

Very odd.

[Idris]

Some years ago I heard about a number 1a Aveling Road Roller that had been assembled with number 9a Fire Escape engine rear wheels. At the time I dismissed it as being odd, because why would you have skinny wheels on a road roller.
Recently I saw this model in full colour in a catalogue so I am thinking there may be more than one and while not a production model it looks to be actually factory done and it is listed as pre-pro.

I think I may have a photograph somewhere (saved from a Vectis auction?). At the time, I assumed it was a one off/lunchbox special, so it is interesting to read that there may have been a small run of these.
I thought the model looked rather good since most steam rollers had spoked rear wheels, as did a small number of early diesel-engine rollers. IIRC, it wasn't a pre-production as such since it had a straight canopy, but perhaps could it have represented an early cost-saving idea, i.e. using the same component for both the 1a and the 9a? (A 9a escape whees would also have been cheaper than a 1a rear roll since it contains less metal.)

[yellowfoden]

Hi Bert,
Thankyou very much for time and info, I have also found a Y4 with this lip detail almost gone .Regards Jason

No worries Jason, think I have a couple of our original family models of yy4 somewhere, I know I mounted one on a plinth as a kid, I will check the detail on that at some point.
Regards
Bert

[yellowfoden]

Some years ago I heard about a number 1a Aveling Road Roller that had been assembled with number 9a Fire Escape engine rear wheels. At the time I dismissed it as being odd, because why would you have skinny wheels on a road roller.
Recently I saw this model in full colour in a catalogue so I am thinking there may be more than one and while not a production model it looks to be actually factory done and it is listed as pre-pro.

I think I may have a photograph somewhere (saved from a Vectis auction?). At the time, I assumed it was a one off/lunchbox special, so it is interesting to read that there may have been a small run of these.
I thought the model looked rather good since most steam rollers had spoked rear wheels, as did a small number of early diesel-engine rollers. IIRC, it wasn't a pre-production as such since it had a straight canopy, but perhaps could it have represented an early cost-saving idea, i.e. using the same component for both the 1a and the 9a? (A 9a escape whees would also have been cheaper than a 1a rear roll since it contains less metal.)

Hi Hugh,
Yes I agree it looked good, my reference to looking odd was thin rims on the rear but the other assembly mystery was the front axle was also painted green but the front roller looked unpainted. One would expect it too have been painted if axles are painted. I would liked to have seen a view of the crimped side.
Another use of spoke wheel was on an early version of a combine harvester (not released as production item) and to add a little more mystery it had 15 spokes.
Regards
Bert