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No probs Ewan,

If this will give you something to aim for, I currently have 10 models in blue on the 1st body casting, then 3 models in blue on the 2nd body casting. I have three or four more blue versions to get to consider those complete.

I can then start to top-up the gold bodied versions.

Regards,
GHOSTHUNTER.

Having now got access to my own collection of 69c models, I can post a better picture of the two earliest versions in my collection.

The example on the left has the long seat moulding as used in the pre-production models and by looking in the boot, you will see the dark orange plastic down the side of the hinge opening, the example on the right does not have this and all examples made after this will not have this, the whole rear area of the seat moulding was re-tooled to remove all the surplus plastic, it stops just near the top of the rear seat and the tow hook arm is much reduced.

This first example, ('MY' No.1), can be found in the 'F'1 and 'F'2 box, suggesting quite a number were made if its got into the 'F'2 box, but this is a 'Hard To Find' version, the only other example I have seen is in a picture, alongside it's 'F'2 box.

GHOSTHUNTER.

In an earlier posting, johnny pimp asked me if I had certain models featured in Nick's guide for the 69c Rolls-Royce.

Those models are...

69-c-1 Blue metallic with flat black base...I don't know of this version, if it has the long seat moulding, then I do know it and it will be the earliest issue.
69-c-5 Dark blue metallic, black base...Yes, I have this one.
69-c-6 Dark blue metallic, light green base...If this is the so-called 'Aqua-Green' baseplate version, no, I don't have this one.
69-c-19 Gold, light yellow base...I have a bright yellow version, is that the same one, not sure without popping in to the guide.
69-c-31 Lime-gold metallic, orange interior...I don't know of this version, so no.
69-c-36 Lime-gold metallic, silver-grey base...Yes, I have this one.

If somebody can provide a picture of '69-c-1', with the flat black base, but showing the inside of the boot, that would prove its the earliest issue and correctly positioned on the guide as 'Code 1'.

There are three distinct shades of the yellow base...Pale yellow, Medium yellow and Bright yellow.

There is so much more to talk about on this model, but I hope I have answered johnny pimp's question.

Regards,
GHOSTHUNTER.

I would like to have a close look at the extra plastic surrounding the hook - when its inside the bodyshell its hard to see if this is in fact merely part of the casting sprue that by mistake wasnt removed by Lesney before assembley.The tow hook has always been held in place by the rivit post on the car but in the moulding process it would require sprue to support the tow hook to stop it breaking off when ejected from the mould perhaps as one of 4 or 6 sets of seats made per injecting operation by the tooling

Hi SMS88,

The extra plastic around the inside part of the tow hook arm and the rear seat is definately intended to be there on those first issues, but because they seem to be rarely seen and consequently 'Hard To Find', I don't have a spare or a beater version, to take to pieces.

Its definately not waste sprue plastic that hasn't been cut off before assembly.

I will try and get some more pictures that show it better.

Regards,
GHOSTHUNTER.

GHOSTHUNTER wrote:Hi SMS88,

The extra plastic around the inside part of the tow hook arm and the rear seat is definately intended to be there on those first issues, but because they seem to be rarely seen and consequently 'Hard To Find', I don't have a spare or a beater version, to take to pieces.

Its definately not waste sprue plastic that hasn't been cut off before assembly.

I will try and get some more pictures that show it better.

Regards,
GHOSTHUNTER.

How odd! The assembly is naturally very rigid because the rivit post holds to tow hook so securely.When this model was designed they had the experience with seats from the #24 Silver Shadow for inspiration albeit without tow hook but otherwise fitteing around the exact same boot recess and body size.On the photo you have shown I can see what appears to be one of a pair of sprue nubs that holds the hook rigid when it ejects from the mould

Hello SMS88, in an earlier post, I said I would try and get some more pictures of the 69c Silver Shadow with the unusual 'longer' seat moulding. I have added the extra set of pictures here for you and hope they show more of the orange plastic areas.

After studying the model again, and again, since it was first shown in an earlier posting connected to a baseplate variation, I cannot be swayed away from my views, that it is definately a design requirement that allows the extra plastic to be there and not spare 'Sprue' waste.

You could argue that even the pre-pro has the same 'sprue' waste that was not removed because it is a pre-pro and something like that was not important to the evaluation of the model, so was left there, but to then leave it there on the first full-production run, is doubtful.

In picture number 8, I have borrowed Nick's image of the well known yellow pre-production model and tried to place 'my' example in the same pose for comparison of the plastic that you can see inside the rear wheel arch.

For clarity, I have deliberately left the images large, so just left click on them and they will display fullsize.

Regards,
GHOSTHUNTER.

Good photos Ghosthunter - they do appear to show no obvious break point so I can accept that you have shown beyond reasonable doubt that these extra legs were not intended to be sprue designed to break off! The suspension on a normal #69c is superb -how well does the suspension work with these extra legs? Looking inside an opened up 69c I have I can see seat mould segment #3 which means at least 4 different seat sets were made each time the tooling was injected with plastic -chances are the long legs are from only the 1st segment cut and their most likely function could have been to make the folded roof much harder to unclip. This casting almost certainly was planned as a RW model using the same suspension design as the #24 Silver Shadow but the seats had to be shorter to allow the folded roof to clip on......

Hi there SMS88,

Here is another picture showing a 'With and without' comparison, but I have drawn what I believe to be the layout of the moulding. It is difficult to see exactly how its laid out, especially around the elongated hole for the base rivet, but by gently teasing the tow hook itself from side-to-side, you can see the corners in picture #7, moving in the opposite direction, suggesting there is a narrow connection from the outer edges, (extreme left and right), joining the central tow hook arm, (the section with the elongated hole).

The actual plastic extension from the top of the rear seat, down to where the tow hook 'arm' starts, seems to be the same as on the later models, one of which you say you have in pieces, so its only all the outer areas that were removed, leaving the tow hook 'arm' extending along to the hook itself.

The rear section of the suspension is well away from these parts, so operates nice and freely.

As I mentioned earlier, I don't have another example or a beater example I could take apart to have a real good look.

If we could meet somewhere like a toy fair, I could bring along for you to see for yourself, as you know, its always better to have it in your hand, the best pictures in the World with a detailed description still leaves some doubt on matters such as this.

This particular example is one of my own original models purchased new in 1969 and sadly displays a certain 'playworn' patina, I do still have the 'F'1 box for it and at the moment...its not for sale

Regards,
GHOSTHUNTER.

Many thanks for the insight provided here and the excellent pictures!

While I do not have an example with the long seat moulding and will now start actively looking for that variation, here is an attempt to show the flat black base, on top in the following picture:



To me it is the same kind of flat black which is also found on several late RW models, including the 24c Silver Shadow Saloon.