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I think Jason might want to try and get to some model club-nite gatherings with the model, so others can inspect it 'In Hand' and just by chance, the Maidenhead Static Model Club will be having their next one on Monday 16th February, if you want Jason, you can come in as my guest for the night and you can meet the great Robert Newson at the same time!

Ghosty.

nearlymint wrote: my main reason is trying to sort out how decals can be moved from one model to another and how to spot it.J

Sorry Jason, I didn't mean to call you a fool. My comments were generic in nature and I certainly don't consider you a fool. I've moved many a decal from one model to another. If you do it carefully there is no real way to detect the deception. There is no way to detect that an unused decal has been placed on a model as recently as yesterday. The silk screened die cut reproduction decals made by some vendors are very high quality and have the look and feel of original decals. Fortunatly, most (but not all) of these modern reproductions have slight differences that can be spotted.

I have been able to buy so many questionable conversation pieces like J's 20B at reasonable prices Joe, I could now be the founder and chief member of a special 'VBD Fools Club' if Nick would sponsor us. I am sure your comments are based on some of the outrageous prices paid for some suspect 'Mint' decal swapped models, not on the cheap models like this one that we sometimes buy to display on our 'Special' shelves, share, and study.
My 3 Questions here would be:
1. Why waste a factory unused decal on this Lorry, and then give it to some child to play with?
2. If it was a 60s decal swap for a collection or train layout, why not on a mint $10 model, and not this 'used Truck'.
3. Both the 20B and the 69A were factory released in 1959, why could they not have tried an original decal swap when the prototype shops had examples of both to 'play with' before production?
If Jason finds the decals not to be original Lesney's, my questions are meaningless, and he joins as my first 'Fools Club' member. Each member will have to show us his most foolish Lesney 'Mistake' to be voted into our Club. I may induct Tinman as an honorary member as long as he continues to flatter us with his praise.....
An example of one such 'Fool's Buy' I have made was an 8A Crawler I bought deliberately at the Hershey Matchbox Show just 3 years ago for 25 U.S. that had it's operator carefully removed, then two single upright levers carefully installed to represent the Cat Crawlers steering clutch levers. I brought the piece over to some of my old time collector friends, and we had a blast examining the modelers devotion to carefully ruining a mint original Lesney artifact. Being the 'Fool' that I am, I still enjoy looking at that more accurate 'Custom' as much as I do the original 8As in our collection. kwakers on 'Superbowl Sunday A.M.'

kwakers wrote:3. Both the 20B and the 69A were factory released in 1959, why could they not have tried an original decal swap when the prototype shops had examples of both to 'play with' before production?

Do you propose that someone would think a heavy hauler (open to the sun and rain alike) stake bed lorry makes a good delivery vehicle for Nestle's food products? Or, are you saying it's a lunch box special?

The reason not to allow this model any additional value (over and above one with Everyready decals in the same condition) is because it can NOT be proved original and there are too many ways it may not be original. On the other hand, if people claim it is authentic and it goes for big money ... the Carr's, Hardy's and S.Beach's will begin to put Nestle decals on them and reap big profits for home made junk.

Tinman wrote:

nearlymint wrote: my main reason is trying to sort out how decals can be moved from one model to another and how to spot it.J

Sorry Jason, I didn't mean to call you a fool. My comments were generic in nature and I certainly don't consider you a fool. I've moved many a decal from one model to another. If you do it carefully there is no real way to detect the deception. There is no way to detect that an unused decal has been placed on a model as recently as yesterday. The silk screened die cut reproduction decals made by some vendors are very high quality and have the look and feel of original decals. Fortunatly, most (but not all) of these modern reproductions have slight differences that can be spotted.

Thanks JP for the info, unless a bit of history can be found on any rare decal model tread carefully basically. I never pay high usually on any decal/label model unless I am 100% convinced, this just confirms it even more. Thankyou all very much for taking the time to comment on this model. J

kwakers wrote: If Jason finds the decals not to be original Lesney's, my questions are meaningless, and he joins as my first 'Fools Club' member.

Hi Dick, the reason for me starting this discussion is that the decals look so good in the hand. As JP has just informed us this can be done, so treading carefully with this type of variation(decals on any model) is more important than I first thought.
I have seen many repro Nestles decals, but these have got to be the best I have seen. Hugh has said about damage to the decals, but on this model the decal is quite protected as it is inset slightly where the decal sits.
Just one question about the Ever ready for life decal, did this actually exist in real life on an ERF lorry?
Anway once again thankyou for the comments.
J

I would say it would have to have been a lunchbox 'play' special Joe, not ever intended to be produced by Lesney, or to represent an original Lorry that Nestle would have ever made use of. This is just a single odd Toy, we could never make any claims about it's history or collector value other than kwakers likes it. It is odd and quite notable, nothing more. I am glad it is now Forum member owned, and I am very glad to have seen this one featured here by Jason.
I am not even sure the Ever ready company might have run open Lorrys in the U.K. either Jason (For pallets or cases of batteries to be exposed to the U.K. year round elements??). An accurate box type Truck would not have had kids play value, but my open Dumper Lorrys, Wheel Loaders, and flat beds like this one were always in use moving 'loads' around our yard in the 1950s. It was advertising for Ever ready to build brand loyalty in we impressionable youngsters, quite effective I would say. I drank Nestle's Cocoa and bought Ever Ready batteries until the 'Energizer Bunny' stole my battery loyalty away.....LOL kwakers

Idris wrote:

Tinman wrote:I seriously doubt its authentic. It makes no sense to brand that type of truck for Nestle in the first place. With the prices people pay for such nonsense models, it ripe to be a reassignment, after the fact use of left over decals or even a good reproduction. Regardless, only a fool would pay extra money for that model.

I agree with Joe.
Looking at the decals, I see some chipping, but perhaps not enough given the wear to the rest of the model. Could we be looking at a 1960s decal swap?

I think you said you sometimes used to go to the Savoy Tavern where Matchbox collectors would meet each month in the 1970s. I remember one of the ex-employees having rolls of decals to sell for next to nothing. You chose what you needed. I still have a few that I kept from those days.
I did try to place the 22a Coach decals on to the sides of the coach, without complete success, because the coach I had in my collection had misplaced decals. I could not get the decals to sit absolutely straight. I am sure a machine was far more accurate. It certainly isn't easy to do.

One of the reasons for pre-pros was to check the placement of decals and labels. Often the decals or labels would not be available or even ordered when decoration was being considered. Thus decals would be used from other models or labels created by hand. After a decision was taken, generally the sample would be tossed in a bin for recycling. However, it is possible that the Nestles decal was fitted in R & D to 20b, just to see how the truck looked with a decal. Several other decals may have been used as well. It is possible that the model shown here escaped the bin. However, it is equally possible that the decal came from the roll of decals mentioned above.

Nigel

kwakers wrote: I drank Nestle's Cocoa and bought Ever Ready batteries until the 'Energizer Bunny' stole my battery loyalty away.....LOL kwakers

Eveready makes the Energizer.

The Energizer Bunny was stolen (1988) from Duracell's UK and overseas advertising and is mostly a Western hemisphere spokesperson for Energizer. The Energizer Bunny was based on the similar Duracell Bunny used in the UK. In Asia, Australia, NZ, and the UK, the mascot for Energizer is a muscle-bound AA battery. He performs with extreme speed, which is meant to show that Energizer batteries are long lasting. This is primarily because Duracell advertises their batteries in the market using the Duracell Bunny.

I mention the above because the Energizer Bunny is probably not known across the pond.

Eveready began as the American Electrical Novelty and Manufacturing Company. Early in the 1900 it changed its name to The American Ever Ready Company and after it became part of the National Carbon Company the trademark was shortened to Eveready. National Carbon merged with Union Carbide Company and in the late 1950's they created the first Alkaline battery. In 1906 British Ever Ready Electrical Company was formed for export of Batteries and became independent In 1914 (but is now back under ownership of Energizer holdings, parent company of Eveready/Ever Ready).

A heavy haul lorry like the 20b would have been used to haul bulk materials for battery production. Back directly to the topic: The majority seem to agree that the Nestle's decal on this lorry can not be trusted.