Beales without window posts

[mike]

I am a serious Error collector, and boy is your Beales a 'dream piece' moston. You have had this one squirreled away since you bought it? Shame on you! Yours is a highlight piece to any Lesney collection.
I have never heard a figure of 6000 castings on this Beales, is that figure correct? I had always assumed a third of that figure may have been produced. I am sure the lack of one window post is an error we have seen before on the 11 Tanker, but being without both windshield posts makes your example quite unique for any Lesney casting, let alone on the rare Beales-Bealson.....Wow kwakers

I have two models 11a oops models.

[mike]

And, I still found this model.

[Idris]

Interesting points, Dick. I was going to add something about the 10% figure probably being too low for this model, but didn't in the end.
I was unaware that this model was collected from the word go. I think that it is safe to assume that many would have disappeared into customers' drawers, but a fair few would also have been given to the children they had in tow. Indeed, a straw poll of what is currently on offer on Ebay and what has recently been sold reveals the following distribution: playworn (4), mint (1), mint & boxed (3). Although almost certainly not a statistically significant sample, it does seem to point towards a roughly 50:50 playworn:mint split, and the fact that three of the four mint models were boxed probably does indicate that the original owners simply salted them away.
By way of comparison, I've also has a look at the SF 29c Denver Fire Pumper. Currently on offer and also appearing in sold listings I find a total of 17 examples.
Now, assume all 3,000 Beales vans survived. For the purposes of what follows, let's assume that is ten times as many as other models (i.e. only 10% of them survive). I found eight models so, for a different model with a similar batch size (say an SF label variant), we could expect to find 0.8 models on Ebay. The implied production run for the SF 29c is therefore 17 / 0.8 x 3000 = 63,750, which seems a bit low to me.
At the end of the day, we don't know for certain how many Beales vans were produced and we don't know what percentage survived. However, I would still maintain, even allowing for careful customers and avaricious dealers and collectors, that the total number of survivors, as reflected by the Ebay listings, is disproportionately high. (All the more so if we make allowance for the models which are no longer in circulation because they are already in collections.)

[johnboy]

I understand that the models were also given to Beale's employees. I don't know if all staff received them, or how many staff Beale's employed though. If that's the case, it feasible that a number may also have ended up with reps, suppliers, distributors and the like.

[nickjones]

I think I can say with fair certainty that over the years I personally must have easily seen over 100 Beales vans in all conditions, At most toyfairs at least one will be for sale, Sometimes as many as five, And remember, Collectors have been snapping them up for years so god only knows how many are already in collections, Compared to the scarce 27b Bedford they show up at least as regularly.

[kwakers]

Your yellow Tanker was the one I was thinking of when I wrote about the #11 Tankers without windshield post Mike! Thanks for showing the newer members here.
It's a shame that Nigel is not here to comment. He and many other early veteran U.K. collectors were known to have shipped or swapped the Beales Bealsons into the U.S. for our eagerly awaiting collector base here in the early 70s. The Beales were never Toys to those early U.K. collectors, they were just like the original first series Lesneys we still found in U.S. displays that were bought, traded, and hoarded by our family from late 1964 on.
Fred Bronner's N.J. based 'Matchbox Collectors Club' broke the 5000 member mark in 1970. 4000 of the members may have been kids with 125 or less models in their collections, but at least 1000 of us were serious 'adult' collectors willing to pay $50 (1970 U.S. $$) for that type of Mint and boxed promotional Lesney which was only released in England. The Beales was a 'Holy Grail' right from the time any collector learned it existed in that 'custom' labeled white box, just like it is today Idris.
I like your figures in your examples, but Fire Trucks in their stock red colors were never hoarded by us, they were just 'common'. Even with so many 'Rare' Beales still Mint in their boxes, prices reflect the demand for them as still being one of our 'Holy Grails' of Lesney regular wheel collecting. Yes, we do both agree that an extraordinary number of original Beales still survive, disproportionate to any other 'Rare' Lesney RW variation I can think of tonight. Our other 'Holy Grails' we collectors hoarded right out of the stores, including the odd color transitional Superfasts in Mint condition, may also have very similar high survival rates I suppose. kwakers
Here in the U.S. Nick, Beales Vans are ALL in collections. The only shot we Yanks ever get is when a collection is broken, or we 'Steal' one from your side with wheelbarrows full of our deflated U.S. 'Green'.....

[motorman]

Our other 'Holy Grails' we collectors hoarded right out of the stores, including the odd color transitional Superfasts in Mint condition,

Dick, I would be very interested to know what "Odd colour" SF transitionals you are referring to and what the odd colour variations are?

And furthermore do you still have some in your collection?

[Idris]

I like your figures in your examples, but Fire Trucks in their stock red colors were never hoarded by us, they were just 'common'.

The way the figures work, they make no allowance for hoarded models. If that were to be taken into account, the number of Beales assumed to have survived woul need to be replaced by a lower figure reflecting the number of Beales not in collections. This would result in an even lower calculated production run for the SF 29c.

[kwakers]

The answer to your question Idris is simple, Any Regular Wheel found in Superfast colors was hoarded, as well as any Superfast first released and found in regular wheel colors were also stockpiled. Our Superfast collection and spares have been packed away since 1990, and we still have all of the 'tough variation' spares we could find packed with them Hugh.
That Fire Truck with it's Superfast wheels was an exception, because Fire Trucks were mainly done in red for many decades. We missed the rarity of that model's short production run before they were out of our stores. We may still have 4 or 5 of those packed away, but they were common 'store stock' in 1970, not anything rare or special to us 'old guys' even today. We collectors carefully looked at other SF model's base colors, interior colors, glaze colors, label details, etc. and put one of each variation in our collections, which we are still holding today. The hoarded variations were either swapped off, sold to friends, or are still held tightly even today.
You know the colors and the models well Idris, they are some of the rarest and most expensive Lesneys that are even more highly sought after today because of their now known tiny production numbers. Why do you think I get excited when someone picks on some of the oddest models coming out of Bob's stock? He and Nigel have unrecorded and seemingly out of timeline models in their collections for us to learn some lessons from. To cast dispersions on them simply shows who was not actively collecting in 1970 right out of our U.S. stores. kwakers

[kwakers]

In the case of Nigel, of course it would be buying right out of your U.K. stores in 1970, the 'Hot' year for the wheel changeover of the Lesney lineup......kwakers