12c Safari Land Rover in blue

[kwakers]

If you have no access to Nigel's Guide Mick, how does it 'SEEM' that all these blue #12 SFs were shipped to the U.S.? What about Asia, Canada, South Africa, South America, Europe and the U.K. among other places?
Where in my Post this A.M. did I say we did not have one of these SF #12s in Blue, and what makes our collection the proof of a known Lesney variation's non-existence if we do not have one. There are thousands of Superfast variations we do not have, but they do exist. I really don't care about our early Superfasts, I do have a comprehensive early collection of variations, but my current interest and focus is on my preferred regular wheel variations. Please re-read my quick Posts this A.M. that made me late for work Mick.
Also, Please see Nick's online Guide for the factual story on this early blue model that completely agrees with our 41 year old NAMC SF Guide on this variation. If a Facebook Post by Mark Curtis from 2014 means that much to you Mick, what 44 year old facts can I print here that will hold any water now?
kwakers suggestions to Mick: Pay Nigel Cooper for a copy of his comprehensive Lesney Superfast Guide that was written and documented by him as these Superfast Toys were released. You will be amazed at the variations that may not have yet been documented anywhere else, but do exist. If you do not have access to his or any other very early Superfast information that you need, Please do not speculate and present negativity here on our Forum without studying period publications that pertain to these known documented transitional color variations. Are there 'fakes'? YES! Do they make any originals less valuable? Only if they are found NOT to be the original rare blue transitional SF many collectors are searching for.
When veteran collectors Post answers to questions you need answers for Mick, read them and spend a few days doing research before commenting negatively about ancient texts or the knowledge they may be able to help you with.
If you want to speculate about Lesney 'Fake Variations', do that on Facebook, not here on Nick's Forum that we are trying to keep factual and historically accurate. Outing Fakers is Good, speculating and creating doubt about rare Lesney variations is not very Positive for our hobby. kwakers

[SMS88]

If you have no access to Nigel's Guide Mick, how does it 'SEEM' that all these blue #12 SFs were shipped to the U.S.? What about Asia, Canada, South Africa, South America, Europe and the U.K. among other places?
Where in my Post this A.M. did I say we did not have one of these SF #12s in Blue, and what makes our collection the proof of a known Lesney variation's non-existence if we do not have one. There are thousands of Superfast variations we do not have, but they do exist. I really don't care about our early Superfasts, I do have a comprehensive early collection of variations, but my current interest and focus is on my preferred regular wheel variations. Please re-read my quick Posts this A.M. that made me late for work Mick.
Also, Please see Nick's online Guide for the factual story on this early blue model that completely agrees with our 41 year old NAMC SF Guide on this variation. If a Facebook Post by Mark Curtis from 2014 means that much to you Mick, what 44 year old facts can I print here that will hold any water now?
kwakers suggestions to Mick: Pay Nigel Cooper for a copy of his comprehensive Lesney Superfast Guide that was written and documented by him as these Superfast Toys were released. You will be amazed at the variations that may not have yet been documented anywhere else, but do exist. If you do not have access to his or any other very early Superfast information that you need, Please do not speculate and present negativity here on our Forum without studying period publications that pertain to these known documented transitional color variations. Are there 'fakes'? YES! Do they make any originals less valuable? Only if they are found NOT to be the original rare blue transitional SF many collectors are searching for.
When veteran collectors Post answers to questions you need answers for Mick, read them and spend a few days doing research before commenting negatively about ancient texts or the knowledge they may be able to help you with.
If you want to speculate about Lesney 'Fake Variations', do that on Facebook, not here on Nick's Forum that we are trying to keep factual and historically accurate. Outing Fakers is Good, speculating and creating doubt about rare Lesney variations is not very Positive for our hobby. kwakers

What a reply when I only asked IF kwakers owned a blue SF12 but that remains classified information !
Folks who know me know I like to make Mark jokes so holding up his opinion here is merely a p*sstake for the amusement of members. However genuine blue SF12 seems to exist in tiny enough quantities for the discussion as to whether or not they were lunchbox specials or genuine store releases is worthwhile when faking them is easy and just about every single baseplate seen on one shows stretch marks around the rivit,something we dont see on common genuine factory originals in common colours

[kwakers]

If Mark Curtis' Facebook remark was a joke, I apologize to you Mick.
Just like many of the transitional Superfast colors being seen on a seemingly tiny number of late regular wheel castings, these regular wheel colors used on some earliest Superfast models are for the most part Very rare.
Using our collection to prove anything Mark Curtis has to say today is credible is just so wrong........
If Mark's statements indicate known historical facts are correct, that is Great and I will Help!
In this case with his false statement that all 12 Superfasts in Blue are 'FAKES', why would you repeat such incorrect 'Facebook views' here on our Forum to confuse those who may now believe such Bull....
Your green face on your Post of pure Facebook crap is quite appropriate Mick. Why have Nick's factual variation Guide when we can just check Facebook...EGads! kwakers

[SMS88]

If Mark Curtis' Facebook remark was a joke, I apologize to you Mick.
Just like many of the transitional Superfast colors being seen on a seemingly tiny number of late regular wheel castings, these regular wheel colors used on some earliest Superfast models are for the most part Very rare.
Using our collection to prove anything Mark Curtis has to say today is credible is just so wrong........
If Mark's statements indicate known historical facts are correct, that is Great and I will Help!
In this case with his false statement that all 12 Superfasts in Blue are 'FAKES', why would you repeat such incorrect 'Facebook views' here on our Forum to confuse those who may now believe such Bull....
Your green face on your Post of pure Facebook crap is quite appropriate Mick. Why have Nick's factual variation Guide when we can just check Facebook...EGads! kwakers

Kwakers ownership or non ownership of any blue SF12s is still classified behind a smoke screen that not even Edward Snowden has penetrated yet afaik LOL

[numi]

Easy Gentleman ..... all we doing right now is "arguing over sheer speculation" and throwing toys out the cot.The better way to bring the facts to surface is to start by putting some hard facts on the table simply by displaying base pics of these Blue SF12 Landies and re-inspect blisterpacks.Thereafter we can go onto the timelines,the wheels luggage,windows etc.I know that quite a number of members on here have these in their collections so a little help from them will do.I suggest we also move this topic to the Superfast Forum.
I for one have yet to come across a perfect base on any Blue SF Landy as one would expect when it had originally left the factory.Every specimen that sold via Ebay seemed to have some sort of tampering and unrealistic end-prices too!
I too agree that the common production runs have the most perfect bases.
numi

[kwakers]

Our Superfast collection was carefully packed away 25 years ago, a very similar situation to Antonin's he related to us here last year Mick. I also have extensive files of letters with collectors packed away as we reported the rare odd transitional RW and Superfast colors we all found scattered in different cases sent to random areas of the U.S. Our models and these papers are mostly all packed away and hidden as they have been for the entire lifetime of some of the younger collectors here.

Our U.S. Guides recorded very accurately the honest variations we found back then, but we did miss some important additions that Nick and this Forum have been able to add to our ancient scripts. We collectors in the 1960s and early 1970s helped each other locate and swap for some models that may be worth hundreds of dollars today, but 'People Helping People', as was Harold Colpitts Club motto, was our motivation, not $$ and profit. He and Bob Brennen were/are as honest in collecting as anyone I have ever known. Their written words and Guides are still 'Bibles' 40+ years after they were published because they were completely honest and filled with their passion for honesty in our hobby.

My point here Mick, Numi, Idris and all, is that what Nick has written about this variation is factual and correct, Period. I am in full agreement with what his Guide says because it agrees with historical facts on the validity of the blue Superfast Rover as found and recorded. Nick has continued the honest work of Mike Stannard and Christian, and by now combining that with our U.S. Guides (Bibles), we now have more information than ever thought possible on the variations of these Lesney Toys.

Because none of the Gold or Silver regular wheel Land Rovers were ever recorded by AIM or NAMC in 1973, would I now Post on Facebook that THEY are all 'Fakes'? (kwakers will never be on Facebook....LOL That would be an act of insult and sheer stupidity.

My point is now quite simple both here, and on other troubling threads that are popping up lately. Build on our known Lesney knowledge, do not speculate and tear down what has been a lifetime of work by those who have always cared about truth in our diecast hobby. Finding 'Perfectly spun' base rivets on millions of common Rovers is very easy. Finding one of the few of this original rare model with this plastic base being absolutely perfect and with 'perfect base rivets' on it may be a challenge that cannot happen here on our Forum. Would that result make the variation invalid?? I am encouraging others to analyze all the Blue SF Rovers you may find, see, and have pictures of, but the proliferation of 'Fakes' on any given Lesney variation should not change carefully recorded HONEST history in my Very humble and elderly opinion. kwakers

[SMS88]

...................
My point here Mick, Numi, Idris and all, is that what Nick has written about this variation is factual and correct, Period. I am in full agreement with what his Guide says because it agrees with historical facts on the validity of the blue Superfast Rover as found and recorded. Nick has continued the honest work of Mike Stannard and Christian, and by now combining that with our U.S. Guides (Bibles), we now have more information than ever thought possible on the variations of these Lesney Toys.
Because none of the Gold or Silver regular wheel Land Rovers were ever recorded by AIM or NAMC in 1973, would I now Post on Facebook that THEY are all 'Fakes'? (kwakers will never be on Facebook....LOL That would be an act of insult and sheer stupidity.
My point is now quite simple both here, and on other troubling threads that are popping up lately. Build on our known Lesney knowledge, do not speculate and tear down what has been a lifetime of work by those who have always cared about truth in our diecast hobby. Finding 'Perfectly spun' base rivets on millions of common Rovers is very easy. Finding one of the few of this original rare model with this plastic base being absolutely perfect and with 'perfect base rivets' on it may be a challenge that cannot happen here on our Forum. Would that result make the variation invalid?? I am encouraging others to analyze all the Blue SF Rovers you may find, see, and have pictures of, but the proliferation of 'Fakes' on any given Lesney variation should not change carefully recorded HONEST history in my Very humble and elderly opinion. kwakers

I am glad kwakers fully endorses Nick´s SF12 listing which was in fact completely researched and written by me to reflect the best details available from all resources and so of course its my personal view of this model too.
All those blistered boxed SF transitionals packed away untouched unenjoyed for 25 years - few here on this forum could live in a home containing such buried treasures without sneaking a peak once in a while at packaging the vast majority of collectors alive today will never be able to afford to own in significant numbers.....
One thing I do remember from discussions over on hobbytalk around 2007 is that Harold Colpitts put out fake alerts on silver Land Rover Safaris back in 1970,perhaps he also said something against gold RW Safaris too but my memory is unclear on that point. The importance today is that fakes outted in the early 1970s should not be accredited as legitimate variations today simply because they were faked or primered lunchbox specials back then -they were never store sold volume produced code 1s!

[kwakers]

Sonny's Toys is a Connecticut veteran Lesney collector who has sold off his collection Mick. I believe he beat me as AIM member number 4 in Harold's Club. He may have the old newsletters that would answer many questions posed here, and he is still actively selling under that name on E Bay. I had invited him onto our Forum several years back, and still believe he would enjoy being a huge asset to us here........ kwakers Up to work on my roof now to protect those toys! kwakers

[kwakers]

We broke most of our models free of those ugly U.S. blisters Mick to give them air and to display them for 20 years. They are all resting a bit now along with our blistered spares and oddities like your Rolls......Sorry Ghosty, it was the beginning of your time here.....kwakers

[Idris]

This topic is currently in the RW area in the hope that RW experts will be encouraged to comment. In due course it will be transferred to the SF area.