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Tinman wrote:He's not called the "cave man" for nothing

...and lives off miniature wild berries too... .....but i still love my Kwakers
numi

I had a Snow Trac that looked just like that a few months ago that came in a lot with junkers. After looking and playing around with it for some time, it turns out that the tires were from the (tireless) hay wagon in the lot and pop off if you try. They fit perfectly up to the track ridge on the hub.
-Mike

SMS88 wrote: so finally the East coast gathering did happen after all with Kay standing in for Mark who was getting on down with the devil in Georgia!

To be honest, Mick - I never really know the whereabouts of Mark, and I'm not standing in for him.
Most of the times he seems to be missing in his own forum lately, but I can assure you he's there (at least if you post something that has to do with some Gathering in Albuquerque! ).

Actually I don't really care much about all the things between the MCCH (or Mark) and the other forums (or members of the other forums).
Sometimes I wonder about what's going on at the MCCH site, sometimes I wonder about the behaviour of collectors from outside the MCCH.

Mainly I try to nourish my contacts with other collectors, no matter if they are members of MCCH, VBDF, Cobra Toys or of any other forum there is.......

Kay

kay wrote:

SMS88 wrote: so finally the East coast gathering did happen after all with Kay standing in for Mark who was getting on down with the devil in Georgia!

To be honest, Mick - I never really know the whereabouts of Mark, and I'm not standing in for him.
Most of the times he seems to be missing in his own forum lately, but I can assure you he's there (at least if you post something that has to do with some Gathering in Albuquerque! ).

Actually I don't really care much about all the things between the MCCH (or Mark) and the other forums (or members of the other forums).
Sometimes I wonder about what's going on at the MCCH site, sometimes I wonder about the behaviour of collectors from outside the MCCH.

Mainly I try to nourish my contacts with other collectors, no matter if they are members of MCCH, VBDF, Cobra Toys or of any other forum there is.......

Kay

Collectors come in all shades of eccentricity and political colours but because there are not enough of the rarest toys to go around some envious or money grubbing folks have been known to show resentment & spoil online peaceful fun.............

Tinman wrote:He's not called the "cave man" for nothing

I am afraid my 'cover' is now very exposed.......I had always remained well-hidden in ANY Toy Show crowd until now......LOL
There were in fact quite a few Play Arts outdoors at Macungie this year Mick, and I did think of your collection of them. As I was looking past some of them at the Lesney regular wheels for sale, I knew I was leaving some 'rare' discoveries behind in the cars from that line. We all have our particular knowledge that we feed every day, but Play Art Toys were never one of my collected lines.
The Snow Tracs I now have are not push on late Superfast type creations, but straight from a 'special' line out of Lesney's factory during the regular wheel production years. They all have regular wheel factory riveted axles, with odd tires identical to the 61 Alvis Stalwart that Nick sold earlier this year out of his collection thought to possibly be a 'pre-production' or 'special' of some kind. My tires could not ever 'pop off' mboxmike, so I am now left wondering what you actually may have tampered with without appreciating it's provenance. My tires are Not as the later Trailers you and Mick speak of, not even close in their hub design at all. Kay has more detailed pictures of 2 different factory variations I have in our collection with these same odd wheels. Mine were done over quite a period of time, and were all found in used U.S. childhood lots sold on E Bay. My early examples are without decals, while my latest variation bought just three months ago has the raised side letters cast from 1968. It has taken me four years to find my three, so this is a prime example of what "Cannot possibly Exist after 50 years of never being documented". Seasoned collectors have never given these tires on Snow Tracs any credence, but more will be found now that mine were shown at Macungie for examination by some of the sharpest collectors there.
I had the opportunity to meet several MCCH collectors at Macungie, and most are being made aware of Nick's site and Forum from sources within their Club. I always share information on Nick's excellent site, and encourage they look in on our Forum if they show any serious collecting interest. Just like Kay, I have always respected all the Clubs and members no matter how scattered and diverse their thoughts may have been on collecting. Much is to be learned if you keep an open mind in life........'Caveman' kwakers

I in no way meant to question the legitimacy of this or any model. It just looks similar to one that I had earlier, which turned out to be made by some kid who wanted it to roll after the treads broke. The rubber tires from the JD or Ford RW trailers or the tires from the front of the tractors fit tightly on those bare track rollers. Here is a picture of one with those tires on the rims. The one pictured earlier even has the same tire treads:

very cool you guys met up...maybe one day i will have the chance to meet Dick!

kwakers wrote:

Tinman wrote:He's not called the "cave man" for nothing

I am afraid my 'cover' is now very exposed.......I had always remained well-hidden in ANY Toy Show crowd until now......LOL
There were in fact quite a few Play Arts outdoors at Macungie this year Mick, and I did think of your collection of them. As I was looking past some of them at the Lesney regular wheels for sale, I knew I was leaving some 'rare' discoveries behind in the cars from that line. We all have our particular knowledge that we feed every day, but Play Art Toys were never one of my collected lines.
The Snow Tracs I now have are not push on late Superfast type creations, but straight from a 'special' line out of Lesney's factory during the regular wheel production years. They all have regular wheel factory riveted axles, with odd tires identical to the 61 Alvis Stalwart that Nick sold earlier this year out of his collection thought to possibly be a 'pre-production' or 'special' of some kind. My tires could not ever 'pop off' mboxmike, so I am now left wondering what you actually may have tampered with without appreciating it's provenance. My tires are Not as the later Trailers you and Mick speak of, not even close in their hub design at all. Kay has more detailed pictures of 2 different factory variations I have in our collection with these same odd wheels. Mine were done over quite a period of time, and were all found in used U.S. childhood lots sold on E Bay. My early examples are without decals, while my latest variation bought just three months ago has the raised side letters cast from 1968. It has taken me four years to find my three, so this is a prime example of what "Cannot possibly Exist after 50 years of never being documented". Seasoned collectors have never given these tires on Snow Tracs any credence, but more will be found now that mine were shown at Macungie for examination by some of the sharpest collectors there.
I had the opportunity to meet several MCCH collectors at Macungie, and most are being made aware of Nick's site and Forum from sources within their Club. I always share information on Nick's excellent site, and encourage they look in on our Forum if they show any serious collecting interest. Just like Kay, I have always respected all the Clubs and members no matter how scattered and diverse their thoughts may have been on collecting. Much is to be learned if you keep an open mind in life........'Caveman' kwakers

US based dealers profitably export a lot of hubcap Playart models to Europe because they are plentiful coming out of collections built in the early 1970s by retired folks cashing in now.I have no idea how cheap or costly the models were that Dick saw but with loose mint hubcap metallic coloured Jensen FFs fetching $100+ each on ebay and some other scarce Opel GT or muscle car models also being up in that price range in rare colours the chance to earn a lot fast was literally on the tables!we will never know if Dick walked past 20 or more $100 cars that he could have bought for $10 each or less.........

The pre-pro Alvis Nick showed was made post 1976 as a precursor to the casting returning as a two pack item - I have never seen any pre 1976 Lesney product fitted those SATIN finish solid bpw with radial groves in 12.5mm diameter - has anybody else?? Well into 1970 Lesney had plentiful supplies of knobby 12.5mm bpw that were specified for the #70 Grit spreader and the #44 Refridgerator truck available to use on sno-tracs. If it turns out both of these sno tracs are genuine factory items then I would suggest that just like the Alvis, Lesney considered the sno trac in the post 1976 period for a return as a two pack model and just happened to have painted but not assembled examples in store - the 2 known being sales samples sent out to test reactions.The fact that at least 100 pre 1972 SF63c were part of the huge stock sold off in the 1980s factory liquidation makes this the most likely explanation.

This looks like nothing more than a "Dad to the rescue" special to me: loose tyres have been forced onto the existing rollers (hence the factory axle ends) in order to permit the Snow-Trac to roll (rather than skid) across a surface, thereby maintaining its play value (and preserving the furniture!).
If Lesney had been thinking of resurrecting the 35b (and, given all the stories we have heard, I think it highly debatable whether they would still have had the tooling), why on Earth would they fit tyres to the rollers? Even by 1970s SuperFast standards, the result is ludicrous! Furthermore, if there was still a bin of "...painted but not assembled..." Snow-Tracs in the stockroom (surely as loose components they would have been scrapped when the model was deleted?), it seems unreasonable that they would be a mix of earlier and later body castings(i.e. with and without side lettering).

Idris wrote:This looks like nothing more than a "Dad to the rescue" special to me: loose tyres have been forced onto the existing rollers (hence the factory axle ends) in order to permit the Snow-Trac to roll (rather than skid) across a surface, thereby maintaining its play value (and preserving the furniture!).
If Lesney had been thinking of resurrecting the 35b (and, given all the stories we have heard, I think it highly debatable whether they would still have had the tooling), why on Earth would they fit tyres to the rollers? Even by 1970s SuperFast standards, the result is ludicrous! Furthermore, if there was still a bin of "...painted but not assembled..." Snow-Tracs in the stockroom (surely as loose components they would have been scrapped when the model was deleted?), it seems unreasonable that they would be a mix of earlier and later body castings(i.e. with and without side lettering).

I see two pack era post 1976 hay trailer tyres on these sno-tracs so I see not a shred of evidence either left the factory like this prior to 1970 so they are probably some kind of custom but we should at least consider the possibility this casting could have been considered for the 2 pack range with tyres post 1976.
Idris should take a look at the thread from last year where our dutch member shared amazing photos of his big lot of factory surplus 63cs which had remained in Lesney storage for over 10 years just needing hooks to be ready for sale. Not forgetting to mention decals, stickers + all the large numbers of different plastic parts like windscreens for 69c Rolls which suggests to me 1970s Lesney didnt throw away anything or very little that had been set aside at the end of production runs even when the model is deleted. I suspect the YUM YUM SF19s were made after the model´s deletion using parts from the stockroom given the best guesstimates of when the yellow SF12 Setras were produced, ie after (or perhaps in between...) a couple of million gold ones!!!