Valuable Error Piece!

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kerbside
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Re: Valuable Error Piece!

Post by kerbside »

Hi there must have been a few of this model with a spare wheel behind the cab. As my shows there was one as the area did not get painted, when this was originally purchased it must have had the wheel there, but the buyer must have removed it for some reason.

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Idris
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Re: Valuable Error Piece!

Post by Idris »

Almost certainly prised out by the original owner to play with (and then lose!).
shockwavediecast
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Re: Valuable Error Piece!

Post by shockwavediecast »

Although not tumbled at the same time, it seems feasible to me that the same machine could be used. And that, considering its size, the odd wheel may get left behind in the tumbler and therefore mixed in with the next batch of items.
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Idris
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Re: Valuable Error Piece!

Post by Idris »

shockwavetrading wrote:Although not tumbled at the same time, it seems feasible to me that the same machine could be used. And that, considering its size, the odd wheel may get left behind in the tumbler and therefore mixed in with the next batch of items.
That’s not a bad idea, but it does have the shortcoming of not addressing why the variation stopped occurring. (As far as I know, all the spare wheel examples known are silver-trimmed, maroon models. Perhaps dedicated wheel tumblers were introduced as the range, and production, increased?)
However, putting that to one side, not only does it deal very neatly with the mixed tumbling issue, it also explains why the spare wheel variation is not more common, so I have the feeling that we might be on the right track with this.
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SMS88
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Re: Valuable Error Piece!

Post by SMS88 »

Idris wrote:Mick makes some interesting points, but I think another argument against it being deliberate is that, in real life, you wouldn't fit the spare wheel between the cab and the backboard since it would be extremely difficult to get it up/down. I may be wrong, but I think 1950s lorry spares were normally stored horizontally, suspended from the chassis either between the two axles or to the rear of the rear axle.
Furthermore, having found the model without brace to be too weak to stand up to playwear (we know this from the pale green versions that have been found), it seems odd that Lesney would add a brace and a spare wheel, especially since the latter would cost money.
Although it very much looks the part and much as I would like to believe that it is a deliberate variation, I think that odds are that the acceped position on these is correct: it is merely an error piece caused by tumbling wheel and body castings together.
You are right, some British lorry spare wheels were commonly stored horizontally between the axles on the opposite side of the fuel tank or at the rear under the overhang. But we all have some RW71a which shows this behind the cab spare wheel arrangement which was not unknown on army trucks and some ERF models including the V type which we have here as 20a -tried googling up photos of the 1:1 but all they show is no visible spare wheel on either side or rear end!!!
If the spare wheels were deliberately added they could have been fitted to both braced and unbraced castings if both were available on the day that these wheels could have been ordered to be fitted for reasons of 1:1 accuracy or bracing experiment.
Do we have any evidence that Lesney ever tumbled different castings together?
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Tinman
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Re: Valuable Error Piece!

Post by Tinman »

When this model was made, "collector clubs" were not organized like they were in the 60s and later 70s. I learned (can't remember from whom or where) that some of the very early models had the metal wheels cast in the same mold as the body parts. I suspect this process had changed by the time the 20a was in production. Putting the wheels into tumble with the body parts was an excellent (and smart) process, the wheels served as a medium to beter polish off the flash and body parts. It has always been considered accidential that some wheels became lodged in place behind the bed's headboard.

There were "spare wheels" on models before this one and after this one. All of them were designed with a method to affix the wheel or tire. None of them ever had a wheel jammed into a random opening in the body and none of them were painted the same color as the model. The evidence clearly points to accidental placement during tumbling (fettling).
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SMS88
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Re: Valuable Error Piece!

Post by SMS88 »

Tinman wrote:When this model was made, "collector clubs" were not organized like they were in the 60s and later 70s. I learned (can't remember from whom or where) that some of the very early models had the metal wheels cast in the same mold as the body parts. I suspect this process had changed by the time the 20a was in production. Putting the wheels into tumble with the body parts was an excellent (and smart) process, the wheels served as a medium to beter polish off the flash and body parts. It has always been considered accidential that some wheels became lodged in place behind the bed's headboard.

There were "spare wheels" on models before this one and after this one. All of them were designed with a method to affix the wheel or tire. None of them ever had a wheel jammed into a random opening in the body and none of them were painted the same color as the model. The evidence clearly points to accidental placement during tumbling (fettling).
If we assume that Lesney used wheels as part of the body casting tumbling process then the wheels could have been recovered simply by sieving the castings, a process which would have already removed flash with a finer sieve!
It may in fact just be a coincidence that some 1:1 1950s & 1960s ERFs had spare wheels mounted behind the cab like this
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Idris
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Re: Valuable Error Piece!

Post by Idris »

SMS88 wrote:It may in fact just be a coincidence that some 1:1 1950s & 1960s ERFs had spare wheels mounted behind the cab like this
Evidence?
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nickjones
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Re: Valuable Error Piece!

Post by nickjones »

The 20a was made between 1956 and 59, long before any collectors clubs existed, The wheels were cast at the same time as the bodies on the same piece of sprue. The 20a castings were rumbled or tumbled together in a large revolving drum, They were then tipped out and the pieces of sprue were picked out by hand leaving the just the bodies and the wheels, The wheels went into a tin marked #20 and were sent for grenodising and the bodies went off to the paint shop to be painted. The #20 wheels were made specifically for the ERF as there was no number cast on the body, only the wheels were numbered.
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motorman
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Re: Valuable Error Piece!

Post by motorman »

Nick,

If in the tumbling process wheels where prone to get lodged behind the cab then why do we not see more of them?

The 20a had a 3 year production run so my question is did the tumbling of the body castings and wheels together continued throughout the entire 3 year production run or is it the case that this problem of the wheel getting stuck was identified early in the production run and measures where put in place to prevent it happening, i.e tumbling the body casts and wheels seperately, thereby keeping the numbers of these error pieces on the low side??

I would expect to see many more examples of this "error" surfacing given the long production run if as you suggest no steps where put in place to prevent it happening.
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