Y12 horse drawn omnibus questions

[Tinman]

I have a moderately nice Y12 horse drawn omnibus with an issue. It tilts quite forward so that the horse's inside front legs are on the ground and the rear wheel is quite high (see photos).

My questions are:
How common is this?
Is the draw bar bent in some manner that causes this or is it how the horses are pressed onto the draw bar of a combination of both?

The decals are 99% gone on the right side and most of the back (front decals are OK and left decals are on display in the pic). I want to fix this one up with some fresh decals and to get it to sit right. As one can see from the photos, it's an early release were the draw bar has a single mounting stud. 

My other question deals with horses: Where the horses press onto the draw bar, they are not quite like the Shand Mason horses I've seen. The Shand Mason horses (at least the ones I've seen) either have no reinforcement ring (where they press onto the draw bar) or a quite pronounced reinforcement ring. These on the omnibus have a faint, non-raised reinforcement ring.  The draw bars for the Shand Mason and the omnibus are virtually identical. The only difference being the length of the draw bar's "tail" rearward past the mounting stud point (omnibus is longer there). I am assuming the horses are the same ones used on both models? If so then the ring reinforcement (at the horse mounting hole) must have gone through some progression.

Would love to hear any and all comments to my questions.

[YYS4BOB]

The horses on the bus are smaller than the horses on the fire engine, completely different casting.
The draw bar is often bent, usually by some post manufacture trauma (it's been dropped). Any attempt to level things up results in a snapped draw bar 99% of the time. More often the horses appear to be "rearing up" rather than the rear wheels being off the ground.

[Tinman]

Thank you Bob!

A quick comparison reveals the omnibus horses are indeed a scaled down replica of the Shand Mason horses (how did I not see that before?).

[Tinman]

I would not try to straighten or otherwise bend the draw bar without first heating it. Since that will cause too much paint damage, I think I will leave it alone and go to plan "B.

"Here's plan "B" and it has suffered a worse fate than plan "A" did, the draw bar is snapped at the weak point.  So I will need a reproduction single mounting rivet draw bar as well as some decals (and of course some brown, tan, black and red paint).  Plan "B" activated, full restoration of an omnibus begins now.

While having the pieces and models all together, I noticed something about the draw bars.  The rivet mounting point (for the draw bar) is moved towards the rear on the Shand Mason draw bar and the protrusion in front of the T (where the horses mount) is not cast on the Shand Mason's draw bar.  The Shand Mason draw bar also has more girth and is a little sturdier. This would be why I had to add build-up on the mounting T when installing the horses on my restored Shand Mason (due to the difference in the girth of the two ever so slightly different draw bars). I used the reproduction single rivet omnibus draw bar (which only needed a very slight/quick modification where it goes on the Shand Mason body).  While the draw bars are not the same, and are not a modified casting from the omnibus, to be used for the Shand Mason ... the reproduction omnibus draw bars work very well for restoration of the Shand Mason. 

I also have a horse issue which would normally require my right horse to be shot on the spot.  However, I am going to use some "modern medicine" and see if I can graft the missing portion back on the leg. I've a reproduction horse for the the #7 milk float that will become a donor for the lower part of the leg below the knee. It will be much better than an entire replacement horse and should not be noticed by the casual observer. Besides, I can't obtain a reproduction omnibus horse right now because of virus closures.

Plan B:

[YYS4BOB]

I look forward to seeing this completed. Of course, it doesn't have to be red. Different companies had different liveries, and there were many, so you could do some research and make something unique rather than just mimicking the original.

[Tinman]

I love the one in the above pic. The model is a little complex for a two tone paint job (more work than I want to do as it will already be a bunch of work). I was thinking about green for a change instead of red.

[GHOSTHUNTER]

Joe has shown some excellent restorative work on models from the 1-72 series range and is the only collector/enthusiast I am aware of to work the same magic on Yesteryear models.

For those who fancy having a go here is a link to at least one company brave enough to market some replacement parts for Yesteryear models...https://modelcarparts.com/categorie/spare-parts-0

Ghosthunter.

[Tinman]

Marty has done some YY restorations including the omnibus (MMM or Marty's Matchbox Makeovers). I'm sure others are doing YY restorations too.

When I had a big collection, I had all first generation of YYs (but not all the variations) and even some from the Universal years (love anything steam). But for the most part, I never really got into YYs very seriously. For me, I now see YY's as the last great unexplored frontier of Matchbox. So much to learn and so many to find. Restoring them seems like a good way to learn about YYs and a good way to have some nice looking ones at a price I can afford.

[YYS4BOB]

I love the one in the above pic. The model is a little complex for a two tone paint job (more work than I want to do as it will already be a bunch of work). I was thinking about green for a change instead of red.

From the 1959 catalogue........

[Tinman]

Ohhhh, I like that. I wouldn't have thought of the yellow for the seats but like that too. However, the wheels would have to be red.

Jack Odell did the Shand Mason (for LLEDO) with a green main body and black under carriage with red wheels and it looked stunning.