New member from Canada

[Tinman]

The sugar truck without the decals is clearly a repaint with a drilled out rivet on the base and incorrectly detailed white headlights. The rear tank casting looks like maybe it hasn't been repainted. Sorry to dampen the excitement, it's just another tampered with model

[Idris]

The sugar truck without the decals is clearly... with a drilled out rivet on the base...

I'm not so sure. The rivets on these early 10c Fodens are a bit odd. There are two distinct types, punched, and shallow dished (which, in cross-section, would like like a very shallow funnel, with no lip at the edge. Looking at the photographs, I think this river could fall into the latter category, although it looks like there might be slight distortion at 3, 6, 9, and 12 o'clock. A high-definition close-up would therefore be appreciated.
As regards the headlights, yes, it does look like they are white, and it would therefore be interesting to see a photograph of the front of the model showing the grille trim (if any).
We should also remember that there are at least three distinct colours for this model.

[MatchboxFreak]

Also note the red “tail lights” on the Foden.
It would be interesting to see a photo of the front of the the truck to compare edge wear of the bumper and the rear lid.

[yellowfoden]

Dwayne, thanks for the photos and especially the stamp photo on inside end flap. I find some of the stamps of interest and retail price and date code markings aid timelines for some models. In particular the release of models in one country ahead of another country help with localities for some codes.

Thanks also for the extra 10c photos.
My thoughts are this main body coat is genuine and I do not have an issue with this rivet. A front view photo of the 25b VW and 10c would be most welcome.

If you look at Nick’s page for the 10c he also shows this rivet on base type 2 in his group of three bases photos.

I have three distinct different rivet finishes on my fleet of 10c and here are three good examples attached of the same rivet finish. Please click on photo to see all three.
Antonin has shown us a very good example of this rivet here.


With respect to the any trim we need to see a front on photo to capture the detail correctly especially given the 25b VW Sedan has a similar headlight effect with the photo taken from the same angle as the 10c and the 25c BP also looks to have a white spot perhaps to depict the parking lights as per real vehicle.

Thanks again and please post more pics of other items from your treasure chest.

Bert

[Tinman]

I am aware of the over spun look of some rivets. And Burt's first photo is quite similar to the model in question. I looked at a dozen or so models I have on hand and I will have to admit that I don't have an example that's spun down as far as Burt's and DGinBC's (which factored into my decision as none were that much over spun). The paint is quite heavy on the model too (but that alone isn't a deciding factor). I've no issue with the color, as was noted, that varies too. So, we have a mint model with a play worn tank end (that's a shade off) and detailing that happened after it left the factory. Unknown if if the tank end had a decal (I see what could be film residue) or if there is mask spray trim on the front. After seeing Burt's 1st model's rivet pic, the rivet may well me virgin. But, I don't like the fact that a mint model is missing the tank end and has one from a play worn model. The owner detailing is bothersome, but not a deal breaker. Mask sprayed trim is unknown and the paint is a little heavy. I'll change my view point to "uncertain" with questions still to be answered. Like others, I eagerly await further photos and further discussion (with the caveat that I now doubt the rivet was drilled).

An issue I've always wondered about was why the tank end wasn't installed prior to the model being painted.

[Tinman]

With respect to the any trim we need to see a front on photo to capture the detail correctly especially given the 25b VW Sedan has a similar headlight effect with the photo taken from the same angle as the 10c and the 25c BP also looks to have a white spot perhaps to depict the parking lights as per real vehicle.
Bert

The 25c is detailed and it very much looks like detailed white headlights on the VW. It makes me think those models came in the same lot as the sugar truck and that they came from a model railroader. The sugar truck decals could have been removed by the same model railroader as that was often a common thing to do. Did the model leave the factory with no decals and no tank end? Who knows and we'll probably never know. I will say I feel reasonably certain the tank end is from another model.

[DGinBC]

With respect to the any trim we need to see a front on photo to capture the detail correctly especially given the 25b VW Sedan has a similar headlight effect with the photo taken from the same angle as the 10c and the 25c BP also looks to have a white spot perhaps to depict the parking lights as per real vehicle.
Bert

The 25c is detailed and it very much looks like detailed white headlights on the VW. It makes me think those models came in the same lot as the sugar truck and that they came from a model railroader. The sugar truck decals could have been removed by the same model railroader as that was often a common thing to do. Did the model leave the factory with no decals and no tank end? Who knows and we'll probably never know. I will say I feel reasonably certain the tank end is from another model.

All of these models were purchased new. There was some detailing done about 59 years ago ... my bad! The Foden is as it came from the store except for the headlight and taillight embellishment. The paint wear on the tank end is on the edges and discharge door only, so probably a little play wear and box rubs. The tank end is tight.

[yellowfoden]

All of these models were purchased new. There was some detailing done about 59 years ago ... my bad! The Foden is as it came from the store except for the headlight and taillight embellishment. The paint wear on the tank end is on the edges and discharge door only, so probably a little play wear and box rubs. The tank end is tight.

Hello Dwayne,

Thanks for adding the front view and some more background info on models.

An interesting point with the lack of decals is that this model looks to have mask spray silver trim and the mask spray was usually one of the last processes before setting the completed model into a box for retail distribution.
So it is possible it passed through the mask spray operators fingers (even if only for a few seconds) but was not enough for the model to be rejected because of lack of decals.

I do not think it is bad to have the personal trim detail added. I also certainly would not be removing it, a much better story as it is.
I have the same thing in our collection detailed by my father for the family model train layout. These are some of my most important models because they are first castings irrespective of tiny embellishment and because I remember staying up til midnight as little touches were made and kits were being built. They have remained like that to this day.

It is also nice to see that these of yours have been preserved so well and pleased you have shared the opening of the steamer truck and contents on the forum.

We look forward to see some of the others.

I am not sure how up to speed you are with box timelines but this 10c box is TYPE C and is the second C box for this model and the third box out of 7. It would also make it about late 1961. The first box is a type B followed by C and then another C without new model on end flap, There are then four D boxes for this model also that came after yours.

This is the excellent online box reference site you will enjoy.


Bert

[DGinBC]

I am not sure how up to speed you are with box timelines but this 10c box is TYPE C and is the second C box for this model and the third box out of 7. It would also make it about late 1961. The first box is a type B followed by C and then another C without new model on end flap, There are then four D boxes for this model also that came after yours.

This is the excellent online box reference site you will enjoy.


Bert

Thanks, Bert
I have been doing some research on the model and box variations along with different printers stamps. This 10c box end flap has a Bowater-Scott stamp.

[DGinBC]

I'll throw some more images out for comments ...