Unknown UK - are they Charbens?

[toysnz]

Digging through the boxes again and came across these two... I think they are both Charbens but for the moment have catalogued as "Unknown UK". Also not sure if the DRIVER actually goes with the tractor as they were separated and have separate database IDs suggesting I bought them at different times.

Ian

Fire Engine





Tractor and Driver

[GHOSTHUNTER]

The fire engine looks to be by Moorstone and the tractor I think is a Benbros.

Ghosthunter.

[toysnz]

The fire engine looks to be by Moorstone and the tractor I think is a Benbros.

Ghosthunter.

Thanks Kevin... will watch for others chiming in

Ian

[YYS4BOB]

The tractor driver looks more like a fireman with that hat?

[toysnz]

The tractor driver looks more like a fireman with that hat?

That's always a possibility Bob - but he's too damn big for the Uk made Fire engines I've currently got access to...

Ian

[toysnz]

OK - I found some photos of Benbros Tractors and now think this is the Benbros Qualitoys Ferguson Tractor. Also took a close look at the heads on the driver and while still accepting this driver may be a fireman as suggested by Bob, I found some of the tractor drivers have a ridge along the top of the hat and the same bulky hairline at the back of the head.... possibly they were using the same set of molds for both?



compared with mine



In the meantime I'll leave him on the tractor and move him later if I find a Fire Engine he fits....

Ian

[toysnz]

I have now done some more research and trawled the internet for photos of my fire engine. I have now decided it is a Morestone or Agasee, using the same casting as the clockwork wheeled escape fire engine, modified to exclude the motor and bell, and further modified to exclude the pip the fireman's hose attached to and the hole for the winding mechanism. Robert Newson has attributed the production of the clockwork Fire Engine die to Agasee for Morris and Stone and it is said Agasee also produced a non-clockwork version in their own right. This model does not conform to any of the photos of the Morestone or Agasee models with slight differences to the body casting.

I have also noted it is different to the "push-along" model described by Nicholas Martin, in that the rear axle does not go through the rear body, but is pinch-clamped to posts inside the body. I have emailed Nicholas to see if he can confirm it is indeed a Morestone - I suppose there is always the possibility the die was used by another company following the fire in 1950-51 that destroyed all the smaller fire engine stock. (possibly Modern Products who did the casting work for Morris and Stone?)

Ian

[toysnz]

Reply from Nicholas Martin re my model.

The model you have is similar to but not the same as the Morestone Clockwork Fire Engine (details of which you have probably found on my website). The reason for the similarities is that it seems very likely that the dies used for their manufacture were both made by the toymaker Sam Agasee of Agasee & Brooks Ltd. They were based at 12 Stamford Hill, London N16 from about 1947 onwards.

The model you have is the version which Sam Agasee made for his own business (the Morestone one is longer) and unlike the Morestone model did not have a bell but it would have originally had a double ladder with wheels and three firemen figures.

For plenty more detail, photos and information about this I suggest you have a look at Robert Newson’s website robertnewson.co.uk because he has recently put a lot more info up about toys likely to have had connections with Sam Agasee.

[MOKOSEX]

Has Nicholas martin has just said photos of your fire engine can be found here http://www.robertnewson.co.uk/articles/ ... index.html i have also seen it described as been made by gaiety but my moneys on it being a agasee & brooks model due to the wheels on the ladder being the same as the earlier small fire engine which i just happen to have handy to photo.
Basically your model would have an escape ladder made with the same wheels as this model but you have mentioned differences so anything possible.
dave

[toysnz]

Has Nicholas martin has just said photos of your fire engine can be found here http://www.robertnewson.co.uk/articles/ ... index.html i have also seen it described as been made by gaiety but my moneys on it being a agasee & brooks model due to the wheels on the ladder being the same as the earlier small fire engine which i just happen to have handy to photo.
Basically your model would have an escape ladder made with the same wheels as this model but you have mentioned differences so anything possible.
dave

Thanks Dave - I'll check mine against your photos to note any similarities.

Ian