#19d Lotus stumper.

[mike]

Hi kbean63.
A great find.
I checked my 19 d models
and have found this model.
(see picture)
Thanks for the interesting post in forum.
Greetings Mike & Nico from Austria.

[kbean63]

Mike - very cool, thanks for posting. Your model has the rings and no rings in the same locations as the models found by Ewan and myself so this appears to be a genuine variation. Once again, I'm amazed that the new rings were added in such a strange fashion - I could understand if they had added two rings to one axle only, perhaps to see how well it worked, but to add them to different axles and on different sides seems really strange. I have to imagine that they were in the process of remaking the molds and then got caught in a rush and had to run off a batch or two before the new molds were complete.

I originally bought my model because it looked like another example of the Biggles variation that Nick mentions, but I ended up getting more than I bargained for.

Kevin
p.s. I'm even seeing models for sale that are claiming to be "Biggles variations". A month ago I would have had no idea what that meant.

[Idris]

Once again, I'm amazed that the new rings were added in such a strange fashion - I could understand if they had added two rings to one axle only, perhaps to see how well it worked, but to add them to different axles and on different sides seems really strange. I have to imagine that they were in the process of remaking the molds and then got caught in a rush and had to run off a batch or two before the new molds were complete.

I'm sure the intention was to have these rings on the same axle, but the way it ended up being done this is most likely to have been either a communication issue or a simple front/rear mix-up (especially if the tooling modifications were carried out by two different employees). Just thinking about this, if a toolmaker were running on autopilot, he could easily have simply modified the axle mountings on the left side of each of the two side moulds, resulting in the rings appearing on opposite corners.

[kbean63]

I wish I knew more about the casting process. I've done some casting using oil-sand molds but when I see some of the stuff that Lesney was able to cast it's beyond my experience.

[kbean63]

I recently saw someone claiming to have a Lotus with 3 rings - anyone heard of that?

[Ewan]

I recently saw someone claiming to have a Lotus with 3 rings - anyone heard of that?

If it was less than mint and in someone's collection like yours, mine and Mike's I'd say fair enough. If it was mint, on ebay and in a box with a 3 figure price tag I'd say 4 rings + file = 3 rings. Wait long enough and we'll have 1,2,and 3 ring variations, with the missing rings on every corner. Can't find a 'smiley' for 'Grumpy Cynical Old Sod' so this one will have to do

[kbean63]

I think it was boxed, orange and in primo shape. Seemed a little too perfect. Anyway they wanted a lot for it and cited it as an example of the Biggles variation so it sounded like someone who may be reading this forum and getting ideas. If the person was one of the collectors on this forum they certainly would have shared some photos with us (?)

Kevin
p.s. I just mentioned on another thread that I tend to trust rare pieces more when they are old and playworn, which sounds like pretty much what you're saying. The more playworn the better, for me - I figure why would a counterfeiter fake a greybound with clear windows on a model with no paint, wheels or labels for maybe 50 bucks when they can get 4 or 5 times that for a minty counterfeit?

[Ewan]

That's exactly what I'm saying - the fact that it's orange just backs it up even more! I'm not saying that you can't get mint rarities, but there should be heaps more beaters than rarities particularly with a previously un-noticed variation on a 50 year old casting.

[kwakers]

As Grumpy Cynical Old Sod Ewan has pointed out, we had to wait 3 whole days for someone to find this Post and shake it up with all the variations he has mentioned. Is three days to short of time for your 'Wait Long Enough Quote' LOL.....
Hello guys, Caveman kwakers with some insight, but the usual no pictures YET! (That package for Joe's pictures can't get much larger!) These rings, or rims around the axle holes as Mike Stannard called them in 1985 were originally on all 4 corners when this model was released in 1965. We U.S. collectors never had them cataloged as existing or not on this Lotus casting prior to his Guide. I not only have 2 store bought Mint examples with only 3 rings and earlier decals in both green and orange colors, but I have a last Stannard code in green with labels that only has one rim. That model is used, right out of a toy box, and I don't think the lad owned a file. I never thought to ask....
As Tinman states above, dies were sometimes changed gradually, but I believe these rings/rims wore out one at a time and were removed in a way we may now be able to document. Whether removal of these rings/rims took place on one die or a die pair we may never know, but I have none of your 2 rim variation in my collection. By comparing those in Forum collections now, we probably will see a pattern in their gradual removal. My 2 have only one removed, which I will dig out to document and compare together, yours have 2 removed, and my later variation has the third removed. In this one's final codes, all four rims/rings had been removed from the suspension castings.
These piecemeal alterations as Tinman pointed out may have happened gradually or rapidly. Mike Stannard may have seen them, but chosen not to document them in his guide. The number of survivors of each type may give us a clue as to how fast the dies were modified, or they may confuse us further. Perhaps that may be why Color Blind but casting fixated Mike Stannard never documented these in his super detailed 1985 Guide. Dick, 'No File in my Hand' kwakers.....LOL

[Ewan]

Fascinating stuff Kwakers and thanks very much for all the extra info. Confession time - I had thought that the axle rings were added over time to strengthen the baseplate rather than deleted because they were wearing out