Three-way Axle Crimps

[ClOwY]

Would you like some more pics from different angles?
Gary

[DrJeep]

The problem with it being a tool malfunction is that the result still works. The proposal is that a correctly working peening tool rotated and moved up and down. However, what these three-way axle ends show is that the wheels still stayed on without the normal peening. That being so, why would Lesney have continued with the rotational element? Wouldn't it have been simpler (and therefore cheaper) to have rolled out the three-way ends across all models?

Some thoughts:

- Do we know that the normal tool rotated? I think the striations wouldn't radiate from the centre if the tool rotated.
- Is it possible that these 3-way crimps were never noticed by Lesney?
- If they were noticed or intended, might they have been thought too unattractive to introduce widely? Other manufacturers (Budgie, Dinky, Corgi) all had similar rounded peened axle ends.
- if these were the product of a broken tool, perhaps reproducing that broken tool would have been very difficult?

It does surprise me that we don't know how peening worked, as every 1950s and 1960s diecast manufacturer seems to have been in on the secret! Does anyone still use it, I wonder?

[Idris]

Do we know that the normal tool rotated?

I think we do. There is some black and white footage of Lesney's and, at one stage, a model is shown being placed on its side underneath a piece of equipment strongly reminiscent of a pillar drill/drill press. It has always been assumed that this is an axle peening machine.

[MatchboxFreak]

That being so, why would Lesney have continued with the rotational element? Wouldn't it have been simpler (and therefore cheaper) to have rolled out the three-way ends across all models?

Using a tool designed for spinning as a compression tool (without spinning) would likely break after a few hundred applications.

Whether the specifics of my speculation about how the machine operated or failed are right or wrong, Dr. Jeep’s earlier suggestion that the 3way crimp could be due to some sort of tool failure seems like a valid option, given the time distribution of the examples found so far and that most are only on one axel. If a machine were to have some sort of malfunction, it is not very likely that the operator would continue to use that machine.

[yellowfoden]

Thank you Bert for doing the research on the 3 way axel, very time consuming I should think.
George T.

Thanks George, it is a nice change away from the deciding if a model is fake and good to have a discussion with many good contributions, suggestions and opinions. Sometimes more is uncovered than what was originally thought. I live in hope of seeing photographs of the tooling one day.
Bert

[yellowfoden]

- Do we know that the normal tool rotated? I think the striations wouldn't radiate from the centre if the tool rotated.

I am quite sure the tool used to rivet/round/burr the end over rotated because on many of my axle ends the ends have very fine scoring and the minute shavings or very fine metal specs that came off are still stuck to the wheels. No stationary tool that I am aware of could create such particles. They were most likely stuck to plastic because they would have been warm.

As a person who uses drill presses, milling machines, routers and lathes each day of the week I am failing to see how this three way axle and can be achieved by a rotating tool bit.
But would be first to accept a plausible explanation given some of the clever tools and machines created by Jack Odell.
My thoughts are that this three way impression may have been achieved by either a strike or pressing.
An impression like this could also be an engraving but would still require the peening to increase the diameter greater than the wheel hole.

In this period 1959 to 1964 there were a series of tool bits because we see different rounded axle end finishes of more than three types.
Kurt’s suggestion of three bladed rotating tool for normal rounded axle ends I also feel is correct and as the tool became worn so we end up with different finishes.

In addition to that there are the finishes on the semi hollow alloy pins used on the likes of the 6b tipper.
We also have to take into account there were more than one machine and more than one operator giving rise to many different finishes.

Another point I believe is these machines (more than one) were set up for a particular task or model determined by axle length in conjunction with a rest bed for precise location. Another consideration is that each axle end was performed in a matter of seconds and lapses in concentration resulted in the axle end being burred off centre and often striking the wheel or roller or hub.

My thoughts are along the lines of being a curved head hand held punch with three way positive edge. When positioned over the axle end the three edges would cut into metal and the curved head would create the rounding over sufficient enough to hold wheel in place.

In the case that a machine malfunction (rotating tool) may cause such an impression means the other end of the axle would also show evidence of malfunction given that the dome was held by some type of jaw/clamp.
A quick check of each of the axle ends we have to date of the three way type could reveal that the dome end will either have or not have tool marks caused by gripping the dome to allow axle to be held stationary.
In the case of my 31b the dome head does not have these tool marks and I noted this in an image number 3 earlier in the thread.

Bert

[Idris]

Just a thought: if we are looking at a peening operation failure, there are two possible modes. In the first, the tool stops rotating. In the second, the tool continues to rotate but the axle is no longer clamped, i.e. it rotates with the tool.

[DrJeep]

A little searching on the internet turned up this - said to be the "arbour press" used by Dinky to peen axle ends. This doesn't look to have been a rotating tool. There's also a lovely Pathe film of the factory, though it's hard to make out the details. Perhaps one of the Dinky people here knows Roger?

[ClOwY]

thanks for clips very interesting-
Gary

[yellowfoden]

Just a thought: if we are looking at a peening operation failure, there are two possible modes. In the first, the tool stops rotating. In the second, the tool continues to rotate but the axle is no longer clamped, i.e. it rotates with the tool.

What a difference a few hours can make after reading all the overnight replies and some practical work today I was pleasantly surprised to read Hugh’s latest response. ESP working here.

Since my post above earlier today, on the drive to work I thought about this some more. I decided to try and mimic a rotating tool pressing against a stationary spindle eg axle.
I tried it with wood being a little less forgiving and trying something for the first time.

With the tool tight in the chuck and spinning, as the tool cutting edge engaged the spindle the work piece (the spindle to represent axle) started to spin. As pressure was applied to the spindle from what would be the dome end there was sufficient chatter to cut the shape I have drawn in black.
The tool effectively had two edges cutting into the timber and with centre pin keeping it true.
As I applied more pressure to the spindle the tool then acted like a cutter. When I backed off I was left with what I have drawn.
If this tool and was curved I am sure I could create a rounded end.
This is effectively what Hugh is suggesting as mode 2 and also what Kurt touched on with two stage operation.

So a tool with three blades I think could create the pattern we see on three way examples shown dependent on dome pressure and a second or two and could be the tool that created the variety of normal rounded ends with the dome gripped and time applied when it was operating correctly.

Bert

Glenn, thanks for reminder of the Dinky clip, there are about 8 scenes where machines are shown. At one point three different devices are seen. Screen shot attached.
In films I have seen of Lesney there were also similar machines a various points along the assembly lines and the still shot of the female working on the 13c taken from this clip.