17a removals van casting line and flaws

[DrJeep]

I was pleased to find a good first casting of the 17a without the casting line inside the body. It's my second, and the first has some interesting casting flaws that might suggest it's very early in production - or might just show a bad day in the factory.

First, the casting line. It's usually quite difficult to see in photographs, but easy to spot in the hand. Here's a green 17a with the line. You can see it on the inside of the body just above the level of the tailgate. This is the very late casting without the window in the cab (that's my excuse for its terrible condition!).

green 17a with casting line

IMG_7077.jpg (320.69 KiB) Viewed 1897 times

and here's the smooth wall of an early blue 17a. It's only the first blue models that are without the line.

blue 17a without casting line

IMG_7069.jpg (246.01 KiB) Viewed 1897 times

Now to the casting flaws. This one is without a tailgate and from the way this side was moulded, it's hard to imagine that it ever had one - surely it would have been loose in the box, even before anyone played with it?

blue right side

IMG_7071.jpg (254.19 KiB) Viewed 1897 times

There's also a big flaw on the other side - the large crack in the metal towards the back

blue left side

IMG_7070.jpg (279 KiB) Viewed 1897 times

and a hole in the radiator casting.

red and two blues

IMG_7075.jpg (309.33 KiB) Viewed 1897 times

The paint is very thick, which is why the grille looks so poor. I think it was probably just a bad day at the factory, but it's nice that it's survived so well.

[Idris]

It is possible that the casting flaws are indications that this is actually a trial, low-pressure test shot, designed to test the tooling before final hardening. The unusually thick paint could be seen as supporting evidence.

[GHOSTHUNTER]

I agree with Hugh as it simply has too many flaws to be allowed to go to retail. Full production models will very nearly have at least one small flaw which at an early stage would have been assessed as acceptable. Looking at a low presure casting they can see if any modifications are required or if the mould is fine and under normal presure would fill to an acceptable level.

Ghosthunter.

[Ergomatic]

Very intresting Glenn.

Could you take a closer pictures both the hole on the grill and around the tailgate pinhole area?

Thank you.

Cheers, Peter

[DrJeep]

It is possible that the casting flaws are indications that this is actually a trial, low-pressure test shot, designed to test the tooling before final hardening. The unusually thick paint could be seen as supporting evidence.

I agree with Hugh as it simply has too many flaws to be allowed to go to retail

That's good to hear - I do think it's a very early casting, but it's nice to think that it might even be a trial. I've checked it over carefully for any differences from my other blue 17a. All I can find is that it has very thick paint, almost no flashing above the cab roof, it's slightly paler blue, and the trim is slightly gold (see the picture below).

Could you take a closer pictures both the hole on the grill and around the tailgate pinhole area?

Here's the front, with a comparison with another 17a, also without the casting line inside the body.

17a fronts

IMG_7090.jpg (320.46 KiB) Viewed 1816 times

and the right side of the back, showing how poorly formed the hole was. If you look closely, you can see blue paint on the back next to the hole, showing it was painted like this, confirming that the casting was always incomplete.

17a rear

IMG_7083 (2).jpg (347.46 KiB) Viewed 1816 times

I wonder why the tailgate had three studs, and not two or four? Two would have allowed it to open: I'm sure that trying to open the tailgate must be the main reason so many are missing. Four would have much stronger.

[yellowfoden]

Great detail in the photos Glenn.

I wonder why the tailgate had three studs, and not two or four? Two would have allowed it to open: I'm sure that trying to open the tailgate must be the main reason so many are missing. Four would have much stronger.

I think for assembly purposes fitting two tail gate pins on one side and then forcing the single pin on the other would have been far easier and less breakages than trying to fit two on each side. There would have been a small amount of give in the van wall for top pin insertion but no flex in the bottom. Not sure how much flex there would have been on a newly cast tailgate without breaking pins.

With regard to the hinged tailgate, if this were hinged with two bottom pins a new design would have been needed or the pins would break after a while when the tailgate came into contact with van floor. A little like the 35a Marshall Box Mk7 where the door/ramp contacts the chassis and probably the model most often seen with a missing part. If it were hinged with two top pins like the 40a tipper it would not have been too good as a removal truck.

It is also interesting to note the later casting (green model above) also has a flaw on the lower left tailgate pin hole, I have seen a number of flaws on this model over the years with metal flow issues making it quite an interesting casting study. A wonderful and a tough little casting though.

Bert

[SupraBob]

I have a 17a "Removals" van identical to the one Dr J shows in the first post. Mine is actually in better condition, with only a few paint chips. More of the decals also remain, but are chipped and dirty. I purchased a set of white decals from the DinkyClub.com, but they have a "narrower" font than the originals. Other sites that I have searched seem to stock the same style. Does anyone know where I can obtain a set that have the wider font as original?

For that matter, it seems to me that if one is to make replacement decals, is it really that difficult to do it the same as the original? The 1-75 guide does not show any version with narrow lettering, so what gives?

Thanks in advance for any help.

Bob

[DrJeep]

I have a 17a "Removals" van identical to the one Dr J shows in the first post. Mine is actually in better condition, with only a few paint chips. More of the decals also remain, but are chipped and dirty. I purchased a set of white decals from the DinkyClub.com, but they have a "narrower" font than the originals. Other sites that I have searched seem to stock the same style. Does anyone know where I can obtain a set that have the wider font as original?

For that matter, it seems to me that if one is to make replacement decals, is it really that difficult to do it the same as the original? The 1-75 guide does not show any version with narrow lettering, so what gives?

Thanks in advance for any help.

Bob

Do you mean the green one? There can't be many in worse condition than mine. Can we see a picture? If the decals are nearly complete and it's the model without the window from the cab to the body I think I'd leave it alone, even if the decals are dirty. These last 17a vans are quite hard to find, and I'd always choose a play worn original over a restoration.

I imagine most replacement decals are made using the fonts available in computer packages, because that's really easy. A good designer could make a precise copy of the decal from Matchbox removal van, but it wouldn't be quick and it would probably make the decal prohibitively expensive.

[SupraBob]

J, thanks for your comments.

I am relatively new to this forum, as I only recently discovered that replacement parts and decals were even available. For many years I looked at my Matchbox models and wished they were in better condition. I have about 25 early models from mid 1950's. As I have said on other threads, the ones that are complete but play worn I intend to leave alone, as I do understand the "only original once" concept. But if broken or missing parts, then they are worthless anyway, and I might as well restore them so that I can put them on display and enjoy remembering my childhood when we played outside with our matchbox toys instead of sitting inside on the couch playing video games. For instance, my 19A Catapillar Bulldozer was, of course, missing the treads. Also, the drivers head was missing, but amazingly the smoke stack and hook on the back were intact. Along with new treads, I obtained a repro Land Rover driver, as he seems to be wearing the same pith helmet as the Catapillar driver. I was able to graft the Land Rover driver's head onto the shoulders of my Bulldozer driver. Getting ready for a repaint, and then the restored 19A can be displayed on my 16A Atlantic trailer being towed by the 15A Diamond T Prime Mover. The hook on the Prime Mover was broken off, and lots of the orange paint is missing. I used 1/16 inch aluminum tubing to repair the hook, and the model will get a repaint as soon as I get a couple of other restoration projects off the work bench.

Anyway, back to the Removals van. Mine is the green version, and also the more common one with the window behind the cab. I have not made an effort to post photos as yet. Previously I have used Photobucket for third party hosting, but as you probably know, they now charge for this service. I have not gotten around to investigating an alternative yet. I'll try to post some photos after I get that figured out.

I agree that those making repro decals probably just take the easy way, but I still think that it is a shame that for the money they charge, they could make a better effort to be closer to original. I would be willing to pay a little more for a more accurate decal. I also have a 25A Bedford that apparently was stepped on, as the roof of the cab was crushed down and sideways and the center post on the windshield had take on an "S" shape. I was able to put the model in a vise and with gentle hammer blows move the roof and "A" pillars back to the original position. The center post broke off. I straightened it and super glued it back in place. All repainted and looking good, but the replacement "DUNLOP" decals that I bought were a significantly darker shade of yellow than the original. I just don't understand why they can't make an effort to be closer to original.

Bob