Serious issues with 4c Triumph description

[Tinman]

I have serious issues with the description of the rare copper color 4c Triumph. In specific, the claim that the same wire wheels and tires that were used on the Harley, were used on the Triumph.

This is simply not possible. If you bend or spread the forks apart to get the Harley wheel and tire in place, it would not turn and you would have a deformed front fork. They fit poorly on the rear and also will not turn.

I'm not sure where this story about the Harley wheels/tires comes from but reality proves it to be a story that's not true. There is simply no way Harley wire wheels and tires could be fitted to the Triumph (not on purpose nor by accident).

Separation of fact & fiction in the hobby is important to me. I like to weed out rumor and fictitious stories whenever possible. With the Harley, the model is so rare that I've never seen one in person. Also, I've never seen photographs of one that was good enough to use for research or inspection. But one thing I do know, Harley wheels/tires will not fit and do not work on a Triumph.

The wheels and tires used on both 1-75 motorcycles are not exclusive to the Triumph or the Harley. They come from the YY range and are used on several other models.

[ChFalkensteiner]

There are pictures showing the copper Triumph with the Harley wheels, including one on Nick's page describing this model.

It is easily possible that the wheels do not turn properly on those models, and that the workers used some brute force to fit them, but nonetheless they did. (There are quite a few other cases too in which incorrect wheels or other incorrect parts were fitted to models, resulting in them not working properly.)

I do not have any doubts that this story is true, as IMO there is a sufficient amount of evidence to prove it.

[Tinman]

Does anyone have a photo of the model viewing it from the front? It would then show badly bowed front forks where the wheel is force fit into the model. The wheel would not even come close to turning and the model would look awkward.

Could some other YY spoke wheel (a third type) have been used and could it just be confused with the one used on the Harley? If you try to force the Harley style wheels on the Triumph, you seriously risk breaking the front forks and if they don't break, each finished model is bent and damaged.

I still seriously doubt that the same wheels and tires that went on the Harley were forced onto the Triumph and that each one (done this way) left the factory with bent and butchered front forks and wheels that would not ever roll.

[kay]

Could some other YY spoke wheel (a third type) have been used and could it just be confused with the one used on the Harley?

There is a rare variation of the Y 10-2 Mercedes 36/220 that has the wheels of the No. 4c Triumph instead of the normal sized MOY wire wheels - so I thought that the original Mercedes wire wheels might have been the clue to this mystery.
But the MOY wire wheels from that time for the Y 10-2 Mercedes and the Y 5-2 Bentley 4.5 Ltr. are the same wheels as for the No. 66b Harley Davidson!
And there is no other MOY wire wheel from that time that would fit (the Y 8-2 Sunbeam Motorcycle has wheels with a much larger diameter).

Kay

[Tinman]

Kay, the Bently seems to show up often with damage and heavy play wear. They seem plentiful and are very cheap in that condition. I've used two or three Bently's as wheel donors for the 1-75 Harley. The YY Sumbeam was always a model that eluded me (at least for a price I was willing to pay) so I've never examined one. Are you saying the Sumbeam wheel/tire is exclusive to that model?

[kay]

The YY Sumbeam was always a model that eluded me (at least for a price I was willing to pay) so I've never examined one. Are you saying the Sumbeam wheel/tire is exclusive to that model?

Joe,

the Sunbeam wheels with 26 spokes have only been used for one other MOY model, the Y2-3 Vauxhall Prince Henry - but the Vauxhall wheels have always been in brass finish!

Kay