16d Case Bulldozer
16d Case Bulldozer
Neither the NAMC’s “Catalog of all Series Matchbox Models” (second edition) nor the AIM's “1-75 Series Regular Wheels” catalogue (second printing, 1983) lists any variations not already covered by Nick.
Stannard is difficult to interpret since he only lists three base text variations (Nick has four). Houghton (presumably derived from Stannard) is the same. In addition, they have five baseplate text/undercab brace thickness combinations rather than Nick's four, making unpicking the variation tables nigh on impossible.
U.K. Matchbox examined the model in vol. 4 no. 4 (Oct. '80) p118, and also identified only three baseplates. Unfortunately, they are not the same three as Stannard and Houghton! In addition, the variation in ridge thickness underneath at the rear was not spotted.
Given the above, it is very difficult to say whether Nick's listing is missing any previously catalogued variations. However, I think two points can be made:
- It looks as though the link between the baseplate text and the undercab ridge thickness may[ not be fixed. Both Stannard and Houghton indicate that the same text can exist with either ridge thickness, the thin ridge being found on earlier models, and the thicker ridge on later models.
- I do not think that all four baseplates were in production simultaneously (as Nick's variation table implies). Given how other cataloguers have listed their baseplate variations against other changes to the model (i.e. blade, track guards, cab rear), it is clear that replacement baseplate tooling was cut during the model's lifetime. In my opinion, this makes it highly unlikely that Nick's baseplate type A exists with black rollers (variation code 25).
In this particular instance, I think all we can do is compare the models in our collections against those in Mick's table, confirming what we can, and adding further variations as necessary.
Stannard is difficult to interpret since he only lists three base text variations (Nick has four). Houghton (presumably derived from Stannard) is the same. In addition, they have five baseplate text/undercab brace thickness combinations rather than Nick's four, making unpicking the variation tables nigh on impossible.
U.K. Matchbox examined the model in vol. 4 no. 4 (Oct. '80) p118, and also identified only three baseplates. Unfortunately, they are not the same three as Stannard and Houghton! In addition, the variation in ridge thickness underneath at the rear was not spotted.
Given the above, it is very difficult to say whether Nick's listing is missing any previously catalogued variations. However, I think two points can be made:
- It looks as though the link between the baseplate text and the undercab ridge thickness may[ not be fixed. Both Stannard and Houghton indicate that the same text can exist with either ridge thickness, the thin ridge being found on earlier models, and the thicker ridge on later models.
- I do not think that all four baseplates were in production simultaneously (as Nick's variation table implies). Given how other cataloguers have listed their baseplate variations against other changes to the model (i.e. blade, track guards, cab rear), it is clear that replacement baseplate tooling was cut during the model's lifetime. In my opinion, this makes it highly unlikely that Nick's baseplate type A exists with black rollers (variation code 25).
In this particular instance, I think all we can do is compare the models in our collections against those in Mick's table, confirming what we can, and adding further variations as necessary.
- Brad Pittiful
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Re: 16d Case Bulldozer
i found some variations not listed in nicks guide
he has listed the first 4 variations with square track guards and no cab ears...but there are other variations with square track guards that dont fall in the first 4 codes
i have three with square track guards and with cab ears...the 13 14 15 16 codes say these all should have rounded track guards and i have three with square track guards
the codes 9 10 11 12 say...rounded track guards...mine has square track guards
he has listed the first 4 variations with square track guards and no cab ears...but there are other variations with square track guards that dont fall in the first 4 codes
i have three with square track guards and with cab ears...the 13 14 15 16 codes say these all should have rounded track guards and i have three with square track guards
the codes 9 10 11 12 say...rounded track guards...mine has square track guards
Please use a web hosting site (like photobucket) to store pictures so you can post them here, using attachments makes it hard to view the pictures when you have to scroll to see them. Seeing comparisons of models is hard to see with attachments too.
- Brad Pittiful
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Re: 16d Case Bulldozer
as i was looking over these models again before i put them away i noticed i had one in the superfast rotating display...i took it out and it doesnt have the quotes on the base...i forgot i had this as i was searching for one...also have one without the rounded corners on the blade but its very well played with so i am searching for one of these too
as we all do i checked or the guide for some info to refresh my knowledge and i have some models that contradict the guide...it said the #1 casting had the no quotes but i have a number 2 without no quotes...in the pic of the no quotes model it has black tracks as does my #2 base model without quotes...the guide says later issues have black tracks
anyone else have similar model to mine?
as we all do i checked or the guide for some info to refresh my knowledge and i have some models that contradict the guide...it said the #1 casting had the no quotes but i have a number 2 without no quotes...in the pic of the no quotes model it has black tracks as does my #2 base model without quotes...the guide says later issues have black tracks
anyone else have similar model to mine?
Please use a web hosting site (like photobucket) to store pictures so you can post them here, using attachments makes it hard to view the pictures when you have to scroll to see them. Seeing comparisons of models is hard to see with attachments too.
Re: 16d Case Bulldozer
I think the quotation marks must have been added early (perhaps very early?) in production when someone remembered that they form part of the trademark. If so, there should also be base 3 without quotation marks, and base 1 with them.
GP
- ChFalkensteiner
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Re: 16d Case Bulldozer
I can confirm that this is definitely true.DrJeep wrote: I think the quotation marks must have been added early (perhaps very early?) in production when someone remembered that they form part of the trademark. If so, there should also be base 3 without quotation marks, and base 1 with them.
Besides, in my experience (so far) totally angled blade corners are only found on number 4 bases; all others are always somewhat rounded, although there is some variety.
The Case Bulldozer is one of the most difficult models with regard to deciding which casting differences are due to the four base moulds used concurrently and which are due to modifications made to the castings. My own way of cataloguing these things is somewhat different from Nick's, but I am by no means sure if I am 100% correct.
Of course, models without quotation marks should always have green rubber tracks, not black, but those can be switched anytime.
Re: 16d Case Bulldozer
Thank you - it's good to know that all four bases can be found without the quotation marks.
I think you're probably right about the tracks being changed. However, it is interesting that mine, Brad's and the one without quotation marks pictured here http://www.vintagebritishdiecasts.co.uk ... /xx16d.htm all have black tracks. Mine has 26 treads, not 25, and is noticeably thinner than the green tracks on this other 16d (bought entirely separately, so not swapped between these two). Is the black 26 tread track from a later 16d or are these 25 tread as listed in Nick's guide?
GP
I think you're probably right about the tracks being changed. However, it is interesting that mine, Brad's and the one without quotation marks pictured here http://www.vintagebritishdiecasts.co.uk ... /xx16d.htm all have black tracks. Mine has 26 treads, not 25, and is noticeably thinner than the green tracks on this other 16d (bought entirely separately, so not swapped between these two). Is the black 26 tread track from a later 16d or are these 25 tread as listed in Nick's guide?
GP
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Re: 16d Case Bulldozer
I've been trying to make a bit more sense of the 16d. This will probably end up being rather long, so here's the summary:
- there are lots of different variations
- it's very complicated and definitely not finished.
First, because it's easiest, colours.
The body colour started in a darkish red, then became darker, and finally ended up in an orange-red. It's hard to see here, but you can see it best in the darker seats of the 2nd to 4th models below. The orange-red has a yellow undercoat which is very close to the colour of the base. This has been noted before. The base colour started in a yellow-orange, but changed to yellow before returning to a slightly lighter shade of yellow-orange on the last 16ds.
- there are lots of different variations
- it's very complicated and definitely not finished.
First, because it's easiest, colours.
The body colour started in a darkish red, then became darker, and finally ended up in an orange-red. It's hard to see here, but you can see it best in the darker seats of the 2nd to 4th models below. The orange-red has a yellow undercoat which is very close to the colour of the base. This has been noted before. The base colour started in a yellow-orange, but changed to yellow before returning to a slightly lighter shade of yellow-orange on the last 16ds.
Last edited by DrJeep on Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: 16d Case Bulldozer
Next, casting differences. There were definitely 4 different bases, helpfully numbered 1 to 4. I think all four were in production throughout the run of the 16d. I think this because the "no quotes" base has been shown on bases 1, 2 and 4 and surely must exist on base 3. The "no quotes" base is very early in production and the quotation marks were added very soon. I think the "no quotes" base is rare and very few have been shown here.
There were also different body castings. I think there were probably 4, mainly because it would make sense to have the same number of each in production. This could be wrong, but it's a good starting point.
This is where it starts getting difficult. We know that there were changes in the body casting:
- the beam under the hook was extended
- the track guards were rounded
- "ears" were added to hold the plastic cab.
I think these were probably done to all four body castings at about the same time. I think there are some other differences that start to disentangle the different body castings.
I have one body with a raised semi-circle in front of the driver's seat. This one is easy to spot! For the others, I think we have to look at the track guard castings. This gets difficult because there are definitely casting differences but there's also the issue of the moulds wearing. However, I think I'm starting to see differences in the top of the left-side track guard.
First, the one on the left here. It's on a no quotes base and it's the first casting variation. The top of the track guard is smooth front and rear, in contrast to the 16d next to it which has distinct steps. The next casting is similar. The 16d on the left is the one on the right in the previous picture, with distinct steps. The one on the right has a similar step at the back but no step at the front and a small hole - though this could be the result of wear on the mould. However, it also has a much more distinct casting line at the front that I think isn't just the paint.
There were also different body castings. I think there were probably 4, mainly because it would make sense to have the same number of each in production. This could be wrong, but it's a good starting point.
This is where it starts getting difficult. We know that there were changes in the body casting:
- the beam under the hook was extended
- the track guards were rounded
- "ears" were added to hold the plastic cab.
I think these were probably done to all four body castings at about the same time. I think there are some other differences that start to disentangle the different body castings.
I have one body with a raised semi-circle in front of the driver's seat. This one is easy to spot! For the others, I think we have to look at the track guard castings. This gets difficult because there are definitely casting differences but there's also the issue of the moulds wearing. However, I think I'm starting to see differences in the top of the left-side track guard.
First, the one on the left here. It's on a no quotes base and it's the first casting variation. The top of the track guard is smooth front and rear, in contrast to the 16d next to it which has distinct steps. The next casting is similar. The 16d on the left is the one on the right in the previous picture, with distinct steps. The one on the right has a similar step at the back but no step at the front and a small hole - though this could be the result of wear on the mould. However, it also has a much more distinct casting line at the front that I think isn't just the paint.
Last edited by DrJeep on Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: 16d Case Bulldozer
Now I don't think this is all right yet, but it's a good start. The final question is: how many variations are there?
Let's go with 4 bases and 4 bodies throughout production. That's 16 different variations straight away. The well-known casting differences are:
- adding the quotes
- square to rounded track guards
- beam to wider panel on the back
- ears for the cab
- ridge on the blade
- rounded corners to the blade
If we assume they were all done incrementally, this makes 16 x 6 = 96 variations, and that's even without thinking about colours. This is one model where I don't plan to collect everything!
Let's go with 4 bases and 4 bodies throughout production. That's 16 different variations straight away. The well-known casting differences are:
- adding the quotes
- square to rounded track guards
- beam to wider panel on the back
- ears for the cab
- ridge on the blade
- rounded corners to the blade
If we assume they were all done incrementally, this makes 16 x 6 = 96 variations, and that's even without thinking about colours. This is one model where I don't plan to collect everything!
Re: 16d Case Bulldozer
How can we check whether there are four body mouldings? I think that the key is in the early castings, by which I mean the bodies with the beam for the hook, squared track guards and without ears. If you have one of these, it would be good to see a picture of the left track guard and to know if you can see the semi-circle by the seat.
Incidentally, I think that at the end of this the best way to catalogue will be as Christian does in his list, with a note that there are four different bases and four different bodies.
Incidentally, I think that at the end of this the best way to catalogue will be as Christian does in his list, with a note that there are four different bases and four different bodies.