Unlisted 6c Variation?

[jsherwood]

Hi Everyone,
This is my first post - I've been collecting diecast for about a year - mainly Matchbox (anything pre-1982 - you have to stop somewhere!) and Dinky. I've recently started looking through my Matchbox collection for variations, and checking against Nick's excellent model pages and Christian's Word Docs.

I have a Euclid 6c Dump Truck that doesn't quite seem to match up to any of the codes -
It has no silver trim or overriders, black hydrosleeve, no top step on left, thin step on right, 2nd type wheels (not M9-type), and on the tipper it has the letter A with no gap below it, no letters missing from 'England' and a thin crossmember! - whew!

So, that should make it a body type 2, close to tipper type 5 but with a thin crossmember, not wide.
I hope you can view the photos ok - let me know what you think. I'll have some other questions soon, but one thing at a time!

cheers
John

[yellowfoden]

Hi John,

Welcome to the forum.
An interesting tipper you have there and based on what you have shown I would say this type A tipper fits just prior to the lettering damage.
When the lettering was repaired so appeared the wide brace and with my wide crossmember A type the letter N is slightly taller. I can see the differences on models before and after your new find.
With all the other info I would think it would be a new code 22a based on how new codes will fit in.
Thanks for bringing this to our attention.

Bert

attached a screen shot of Nicks code with where I think this tipper type fits in.
CORRECTION- in the attachment below the new code in red fits between 4 and 5 and not as shown. Sorry for error. Bert

[DrJeep]

Really interesting. I also noticed something I've never seen before: the trace of "England" under "By Lesney". Neither of mine (code 14 and code 16) has this. I don't see this on the three tipper pictures in the guide, either. Might that make this an earlier tipper casting?

Perhaps this should move to the regular wheels forum to make sure it's not overlooked?

[jsherwood]

Thanks for the replies Guys -

I own one other 6c Lorry, it's a code 7 and it also has the faint 'ENGLAND' behind 'BY LESNEY'
The paint is quite thin on both models compared to some others I've checked online, so perhaps others have it hidden beneath the paint.

Cheers

[Idris]

Perhaps this should move to the regular wheels forum to make sure it's not overlooked?

Good point (as always)!
Thread has been moved as suggested . Also retitled for clarity and for ease of searching.

[DrJeep]

Thanks for moving this, Idris.

I own one other 6c Lorry, it's a code 7 and it also has the faint 'ENGLAND' behind 'BY LESNEY'
The paint is quite thin on both models compared to some others I've checked online, so perhaps others have it hidden beneath the paint.

When we discussed the Euclid 6c earlier this year, Yellowfoden said

I believe the order of the first 6 codes and the second 6 codes should be swapped over.
The detailed front wheel with the ring of lug nuts came before the detailed front wheels without the lug nuts.
This is best evidenced by their use on the M9 Cooper Jarrett paired with the base plate with inverted commas introduced in mid 1962.

This makes your code 7 the very first of the 6c Euclids. No-one mentioned the shadowy England, which makes me think it's not common - but others may disagree. It also makes me think that there must be a prepro without the crossmember and with only "Made in England" in this area. I'm sure Antonin (Diecast) will have it!

[Idris]

I'm sure Antonin (Diecast) will have it!

...in three different shades!

[yellowfoden]

I'm sure Antonin (Diecast) will have it!

...in three different shades!

You mean like the pic below.
I hasten to add this is not my picture but I do have each of these.
I also made note back in 2012 that Antonin showed a similar pic using the 42a as a colour reference.
The two colour combination to date I do not think has been listed.

Bert

[yellowfoden]

Thanks for moving this, Idris.

I own one other 6c Lorry, it's a code 7 and it also has the faint 'ENGLAND' behind 'BY LESNEY'
The paint is quite thin on both models compared to some others I've checked online, so perhaps others have it hidden beneath the paint.

When we discussed the Euclid 6c earlier this year, Yellowfoden said

I believe the order of the first 6 codes and the second 6 codes should be swapped over.
The detailed front wheel with the ring of lug nuts came before the detailed front wheels without the lug nuts.
This is best evidenced by their use on the M9 Cooper Jarrett paired with the base plate with inverted commas introduced in mid 1962.

This makes your code 7 the very first of the 6c Euclids. No-one mentioned the shadowy England, which makes me think it's not common - but others may disagree. It also makes me think that there must be a prepro without the crossmember and with only "Made in England" in this area. I'm sure Antonin (Diecast) will have it!

Hello Glenn,

This extra ghost print on each of my models only applies to the A type tipper only. Some a little faint but still visible.
A similar ghosting text applies to several other Lesney 1-75 models.
I made note in my Stannard in 2012 regarding the 6c but did not include a reference but it may have been from the previous VBD forum discussion.
I have just re checked my 6c that I have coded as number 1 (Johns code 7 based on Nicks code 7) and yes the ghost text is there. John makes a good point about the thickness of paint and that combined just how well this fine print was not formed in the first place.
Like the idea of a pre-pro of this model, I can just picture Zbret up-ended in that bottom of the barrel searching now.

Bert

[DrJeep]

The two colour combination to date I do not think has been listed.

Another one to look for! Very nice.

I have just re checked my 6c that I have coded as number 1 (Johns code 7 based on Nicks code 7) and yes the ghost text is there. John makes a good point about the thickness of paint and that combined just how well this fine print was not formed in the first place.

So if the ghost text only appears on the A tipper, that does make John's even more curious. I think it has the unlisted 12.5x40 wheels (like the 6b), and not the 12.5x45 that are on the late models. But it's body type 2, with a step. I'm now thoroughly confused by the listing. My dark yellow 6c with 12.5x45 wheels has body type 1, but the listing implies that body 2 followed body 1. This is implied not only by the order of the list, but also by the tippers found on body 2.