"Missing, Catalogued 1–75 RW Variations" Proposal

[GHOSTHUNTER]

I have been into the collection and noted that the Darkest grey wheels appear on the last crimped axle model, with a satin black baseplate (the last model to have a Satin base). I have two examples of this model, so it is not a unique 'One off'. The next 4 versions have the Medium grey wheels (the middle model in my picture), then the next 3 versions have the Light grey wheels (the third model in my picture) and finally, the next 3 models have Silver-grey wheels.

If you know when 'Safety axles' replaced the 'Crimped axles' and when plastic wheels were replacing the bare metal wheels, this will give you a good date for this model, with the Dark grey plastic wheels.

GHOSTHUNTER.

P.S. The "40 Years" book says plastic wheels were used from 1958, but would all the models in production at that time have them fitted, at the same time? I doubt it, more likely, they would have been 'fed-in' onto models, as certain models came to the end of their time in the catalogue and new subjects took their place, but of course on the same catalogue number. So, by the time they got round to fitting them on #44a, the Silver Cloud, it is more likely to be 1959-60. Does this make sense. If they were started to be used from 1958, (a fact established in various model media, so there is no reason to doubt this date of first usage) why are they not on the early issues of the Silver Cloud, first introduced in February 1958. If they were first used from December 1958, then this does allow several Silver Cloud models to be made, before the grey wheels are used.

GHOSTHUNTER.

[kwakers]

OOOOPS!!!! I am afraid E Bay was looking also for a title to my Question to Nick on his Rare 28 Jaguar Pre-Production. When I added a simple 4 word title, it still took 3 retypes of their crooked characters, but the message did finally go through to Nick. Sorry for the alarm, but their screen just kept me at the retyping area without the other note being visible. An Embarrassed Caveman kwakers We need a red-faced Smilie here....LOL

[Idris]

What we urgently need is a volunteer to organise and manage the SF section of this initiative. (I seem to be lumbered with the RW area.)
Any takers?

Is there no one who is interested in SF who would be willing to take this on? No one? Really?

[Tinman]

No interest in SF with me, no thanks.

[kwakers]

In a general statement for Ghosty and all as to wheel use on Lesneys, I quote Mike Stannard: "Metal wheels were used by Lesney on the Matchbox series until 1958 when metal wheels were replaced by plastic ones". He states that around 1957 Lesney started to produce the dome headed axles that replaced the earlier Flat head ones. Another Stannard quote: "Black plastic wheels and Grey plastic wheels, which vary in shades from light to dark Gray, were the first to be introduced in 1958".
A carefull check through release dates for different Lesneys tells us that the crimped axles were used up until, and in some cases past July of 1959. The early issues of the 69 Nestle Van had some of the last crimped axles in July of 1959, while the 70A Thames Estate introduced also that same month is always found with riveted axles. After that date, all other new models were introduced with riveted axles. The 18-C Cat Dozer continued into 1961, and also the 8-B Cat Tractor into 1962 with only crimped axles found on them till they were discontinued.
That puts the production of your 44A with metal wheels up till 1958 Ghosty, and then the crimped axle dark GPW continuing until at least June of 1959. How quickly the riveted axle tooling replaced all crimping machines cannot be said for sure, but the riveted ends were in general use during and past July of 1959.
Another statement taken from Stannard's Guide is: "In 1959 Silver plastic wheels were introduced which were mainly used on cars, although a few commercial vehicles also had them fitted." His Guide shows Silver plastic wheels being used from 1959 till 1964. It is my opinion that with the rarity of the silver plastic wheeled versions of Lesneys, they were a minor part of production while the knobby GPW and BPW were Lesney's main wheels used during that 6 year period. This is my belief from 'shopping' experience in the 1960s, and also the survival rates of SPW Lesneys today. Why were gray and silver wheels produced for so long when Black wheels were so much more realistic anyway?? GPW production was listed as 1958-1966, Black plastic from 1958 till the end of regular wheel production. kwakers
















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[kwakers]

I missed the last point of your Post Ghosthunter. The Rolls had to have been a very good seller in order to have the metal wheel survival rate so high for just a year of production. The plastic wheels must have come in much later in 1958 as you say on this Rolls, and perhaps on the entire Lesney lineup till the 57A was introduced with it's GPW. None of the metal wheeled versions of these higher numbered Lesneys are rare, so their plastic wheel changeover could have been gradually done in the last part of 1958 or even early 1959 as you have said. That would make the crimped axle GPW versions we have a very limited production. Does anyone have the 44A with Flat end axles or the rear number plates painted in silver? kwakers

[Idris]

...while the 70A Thames Estate introduced also that same month is always found with riveted axles...It is my opinion that with the rarity of the silver plastic wheeled versions of Lesneys, they were a minor part of production

Two quick points:
- There is a crimped axle 70a. it is Nick's variation code 5 (which is interesting because the crimping is chronologically out of sequence).
- I have always considered the SPW to be some kind of cheap, alternative plastic which was most likely used when virgin nylon granulate was not avaialble for the manufacture of BPW and GPW. I beleive this is evidenced by the swirling patterns in the wheels: they are not an homogeneous melt, but consist of at least two mutually insoluble polymers, hence the marbling, with the silver effect possibly caused by some kind of emulsification. Furthermore, taking that idea one step further, the fact that they represent sub-standard, fall-back material almost certainly accounts for their comparaive scarcity.

[kwakers]

It is interesting to know of Nick's crimped 70A, possibly an experimental test piece of some sort out of the lab? I will research it's features a bit to learn about it.
You and I have the same feelings on the SPW used on Lesneys Idris. They have a different additive in their chemistry, but only Kay with her plastics knowledge might be able to shed some light on their composition. The two runs of knobby and smoother tread SPW coincide with the GPW and BPW cast during that period, so the same molds must have produced all the different colors.
What this thread has now shown with it's quite innocent Dark versus light Gray wheels start, is that the changeover from Metal Wheels, and also the changing over to riveted axle ends at Lesney must have taken place VERY gradually. Just by coincidence, the introduction of Ghosty's 44A happened in early 1958, the year plastic wheels were started at Lesney. The fact that metal wheels are common on this Rolls and some models made even later that year, means metal wheels were not discontinued that year. Could the introduction of Black Plastic wheels on the 52A Racer been a wake-up call for Lesney to change their entire wheel production methods to a much more standard plastic wheel? With the metal wheels, crimping the Toy's axle ends was standard Lesney practice. Did crimping damage on these 'new' plastic wheels in 1958 cause Lesney to develop the riveted axle ends in 1959, or were they 'safety' oriented as Ghosty calls them? Coincidence? Two Very interesting questions that I have no factual answers or knowledge to share here, maybe the 40 year book I don't have? kwakers

[Tinman]

Kay with her plastics knowledge might be able to shed some light on their composition. The two runs of knobby and smoother tread SPW coincide with the GPW and BPW cast during that period, so the same molds must have produced all the different colors.

Dick, Kay is Man (I've met him in person and he's a typical male lol).

Silver wheels are compsed of polystyrene (I'm pretty sure of that). Older gpw, I suspect, are either polypropylene or polyethylene. I do know that in the early to mid 60's, all wheels were made of the same plastic (black or gray) and that plastic was more sensitive to solvents but had some slightly greater tensile strength.

All of the wheels were made from Thermoplastics which are the plastics that do not undergo chemical change in their composition when heated. The plastic can be melted down and used over without ill effect. Thermoplastics: polystyrene, polyethylene, polypropylene and polyvinyl chloride.

[Idris]

Silver wheels are compsed of polystyrene (I'm pretty sure of that). Older older gpw, I suspect, are either polypropylene or polyethylene. I do know that in the early to mid 60's, all wheels were made of the same plastic (black or gray) and that plastic was more sensitive to solvents but had some slightly greater tensile strength.

Very interesting comments, Joe.
I'm not sure why I thought they were nylon. (It must have come from something I read somewhere, sometime.) It's quite possible that you are correct with your polypropylene and polyethylene - I'm no materials or plastics expert. It would be good to know for certain.
Why do you think SPW are polystyrene, and how do you explain the marbling effect?
Do we know how BPW and GPW were coloured? Is it something as simple as a plastic-soluble dye, or is it simply varying amounts of carbon black?