"Missing, Catalogued 1–75 RW Variations" Proposal

[GHOSTHUNTER]

No, definately the lightest grey I have found, these are definately not the Silver-Grey wheels. Here it is again on it's own, but with the Medium Grey wheel of the second model (the one in the middle), still in frame.

GHOSTHUNTER.

[kwakers]

The main exception to that 2 color gray wheels Idris are the late fine large GPW as found on the 16 Scammell Snow Plough (Plow to us Yanks LOL), 12B Rover, 34B VW Van, 69A Commer Nestles, etc. Those wheels are a very light gray, and of a different softer plastic formula than the earlier hard knobby type on this Rolls.
I know what you are saying Motorman, monitors, flash, and lighting make a huge difference in these Lesney wheel 'colors'. If there are mainly 2 colors of gray, dark and light, cataloging them will be easy. I may be able to find a third gray color wheel on a model like the 45A Vauxhall Victor if I put all of mine side by side as Ghosty has. That opens up "the possibility of there being a whole spectrum of shades of gray (wheels) out there" just as Idris fears above. Introducing a third variety of GPW would essentially make using anything in the NAMC and Aim guides impossible. As with model color shades, we have to see what other collectors have to show us. A base picture of Ghosty's 3 side by side may help us a bit on comparing his Rolls wheel variations, and can be used for ruling out completely a silver wheeled one as the third. Because Ghosty is primarily a Rolls collector, he may not be all that familiar with Lesney's silver wheels. Many veteran collectors still have perception problems with them that they have even shared openly on our Forum. Like Idris, I just can't tell for sure with Ghost'y original picture here.......... kwakers

[GHOSTHUNTER]

Here is an older picture of the same 'Lightest grey' wheels, next to Silver-grey wheels.

GHOSTHUNTER.

[kwakers]

Our Posts crossed Ghosty, and you have said as Motorman suspected, that you are familiar with Lesney's siver gray wheels. This last beautiful comparrison picture shows that nicely. That being the case, 3 grays are shown in your original picture! Now our work is made much tougher than it was in 1970. Do we ignore the middle color for simplicity? The dark is easy to spot, how do we tell the middle from light in the wild? As on Lesney dark green and dark blue paint on the 33As, do these wheels lighten or darken when we bring them out of the flourescent lighting of a Toy Show? As Charlie Brown would say on his Christmas Special....Good Grief! kwakers LOL

[GHOSTHUNTER]

Just a note on my pictures.
None of them have been taken with a flash system, all are taken in natural light, but not bright sunlight, streaming in from behind me and my body controls the amount of light to directly fall upon the models.

I don't at the moment, have pictures of the baseplates of those models shown in the previous posted pictures, but if you still want some I will get some done ASAP.

Regards
GHOSTHUNTER.

[motorman]

all are taken in natural light, but not bright sunlight, streaming in from behind me and my body controls the amount of light to directly fall upon the models.



GHOSTHUNTER.

Ooooh Ghosty you're turning me on, grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

[Ewan]

I get the feeling there is a huge risk of walking into a potential minefield here. The perception of colour shades can be quite an individual thing, and can also depend on what is next to the object(s) in question. When you throw photography into the equation things can become even more complicated as no matter how hard we try, it is impossible to replicate lighting conditions universally. If we could we would also need the ability to view said photographs on identical monitors with identical settings.

I am willing to bet that if one obtained 1000 loose grey wheels and spread them all out you would find even more than Ghosty's 3 shades. If the ultimate object of this exercise is to compile definitive variation listings I would recommend sticking to listing wheels on basic colour, tread count and diameter with a note at the end stating that shades of grey wheels can vary considerably which would leave it open for those who wish to collect as many wheels shades as they can find. I really doubt if the various shades of grey can be pinned down definitively.

[kwakers]

Your statements and observations are correct Ewan, that is the main reason for our only cataloging dark versus light GPW variations years ago. I took part in showing models to both Bob Brennen and Harold Colpitts personally before their Guides were published, and we missed many of these GPW variations it would appear. The dark GPW we noted are very distinctively dark, and are easily seen even in photos. All of the other lighter gray colors we just called 'light gray' to avoid any of the pitfalls we are pointing out here. Ghosty has shown us 3 very distinct shades that he has of the 44A, two of which we had missed back then. I am very sure you are right about other lighter shades being in our collections right now. That might tend to support your idea of a subnote only on these GPW. OR:.....The darkest gray are the toughest to find, being lowest production from my experience. Do we add only those as a distinct variation, calling all the lighter shades normal GPW as we do now? This may effect only 1/4 of the earlier castings, only if we can find examples of all of those produced. Perhaps 20 models tops with these very distinct dark GPW? Maybe 50? Who knows for sure till we explore? We may be surprised by models like the 2B Dumpers I have with both dark and the light GPW on them.
I would like to at least note these darker wheels on models they did effect, if only in a subnote on the particular Nick Codes they can be found on. It would be of interest to detail collectors, and that way may avoid the boredom to those simply not interested in their existence.......
Whatever we decide, thank you Idris for noting the history we still enjoy behind our Toys. The Guides of the early seventies are still teaching us a bit now and then......kwakers

[Idris]

I would like to at least note these darker wheels on models they did effect, if only in a subnote on the particular Nick Codes they can be found on. It would be of interest to detail collectors, and that way may avoid the boredom to those simply not interested in their existence.......

I think that's probably the way forward. certainly the darkest GPW are very distinctive and worth noting. If it turns out that this variation is only found on a comparatively small number of models, then we could consider promoting the footnotes to full-blown variations.

[kwakers]

I am afraid I cannot find the button for a brand new Post to alert Nick Jones on his near closing E Bay Auctions. To speed this Message along to him, I am typing the message here so that anyone being in contact with him will have the information to alert him.
Whether Intentional or not, I have just tried to send Nick an E Bay message on todays sales, just three hours away from their conclusion, and cannot get through. After 8 screens of Funny numbers to retype ( 2 screens are sometimes necessary), I thought I better alert him in case there is a site problem for his auctions today. Any serious Bidder with a simple question cannot make it through, whether by Nick's design or otherwise. He should at least check this out if it is an E Bay problem. God help him if other serious Bidders are equally blocked by such nonsense. kwakers