17d Foden Hoveringham Tipper

[Diecast]

And the very late models have no right fog light on the bumper.

[Diecast]

There must be a variation with small triangular braces. The original size of braces is especially visible on the left side of the tipper body.
Antonin

[motorman]

Images resized for ease of viewing, let me know if I have them in the correct order Bill.

Motorman,
Thanks much for the resize (correct order) !! Is that something I can do easily myself? I have several more photos on this model that I can post plus 17e and possibly others. When I upload them via Nick's box below, the photos come in GIANT size.
I have about given up on photobucket. I went in to buy the "ad-free" option per Tinman's advise and it wouldn't even let me sign up -- just kept asking me to login which I'd done 3 times............
Happy New Year!

Bill

Bill I edit the images on my iPad using software called 'Image size''. Having copied your images I resize them to 650 x 350 pixels and upload them to the post removing your original oversized image. It's quite simple to do and only takes a minute or two to complete.

[durangokid]

Greetings,
A good friend of mine and fellow Collector has put together a well stated narrative with great photos about the variation history of several models. I am posting his information (some already posted above) related to the 17D Hoveringham Tipper below:
I hope that you find it interesting and helpful.

Number 17D Hoveringham Tipper replaced Metropolitan Taxi in 1964. It seems that this casting was not as popular as its three predecessors among general collectors and that might have been the reason that identification and classification of the variations for this casting has not been covered so seriously and accurately in some publications, in my opinion. For instance, I don’t believe the first issue of this casting was ever fitted with white plastic springs, nor that the latter issues were fitted with green tinted clear plastic springs.
In the following pages, I would like to share my findings about variations for this casting with my fellow collectors with the hope of gaining some input from them and increasing my knowledge about this casting.


No. 17D Matchbox Hoveringham Tipper
No. 17D Hoveringham Tipper replaced No. 17C Austin Metropolitan Taxi in 1964. During its lifetime, this casting underwent several major and subtle modifications; however, its appearance remained relatively the same.



First Issue Casting
The original casting was produced with flat brace under the third axle, small tipper stop blocks, longer bed hooks, without the extension under the front bumper where the base tongue goes through, and silver trim applied headlights, bumper, and inner part of the grill only. The cab base was painted black, and the first and third axles were supported by clear tinted green plastic springs. This could be the preproduction phase.


Second Issue Casting
First modification was done to provide better support to the plastic spring under the third axle by adding a straight vertical wall under the brace, slightly shortening the bed hooks, slightly enlarging the tipper stops, and applying the silver trim headlights, and the entire grill. The front bumper was no longer silver trimmed. Everything else remained the same.



Third Issue Casting
The next modification was to convert the vertical part of the brace under the third axle to an angled form in order to provide better support to the plastic spring by not allowing to flatten further down.


Fourth Issue Casting
The third phase of modification included several changes. In this phase the tipper stop blocks were enlarged slightly, the front bumper was extended underneath where the base tongue goes through the bumper, and the clear green tinted plastic springs were converted to white plastic springs.
I believe the early issues of this casting was never fitted with white plastic springs, nor that the latter issues were fitted with green tinted clear plastic springs.


Fifth Issue Casting
During the fourth modification axle supports were strengthened by adding braces on the each sides of the axle holes. Also during this phase the silver trimming was omitted entirely and no longer were applied to the grill and the headlights. The majority of the models at this stage were fitted by only one white plastic spring rather than the two which was fitted under the front axle only; however, some models were fitted by two white plastic springs under the front and the third axles which are harder to find.


Sixth Issue Casting
The fifth modification included changing the cab base color from black to red. During this phase models were fitted by two white plastic springs, as well as one white plastic spring which was fitted under the front axle only.


Seventh Issue Casting
The sixth modification was somewhat extensive. During this phase using the white plastic spring to support the front axle was discontinued, and the supporting was replaced by adding a round pointed brace under the front axle. The top of the recess for the third axle spring support was closed. The holes for the rear axle was converted to round shape rather the oval shape. The variations with the round brace under the front axle are rare and are very hard to find.


Eighths Issue Casting
The last modification was to change the round brace under the front axle to a tringle brace. The majority of the models were produced in this variation which are fairly common.


17D Hoveringham Boxes
The picture below represent the box variations for the 17D Hoveringham 8-wheelers. Notice that the early box types that are without “NEW MODEL” on their end flaps come in two different variations; with the yellow background

[Idris]

Most impressive!
My only comment would be that all the evidence points to Lesney's casting modifications being incremental rather than bundled, i.e. modifications tended to be made one at a time, rather than being saved up for a major revision. As such, I would expect there to be small quantities of models which fall between at least some (if not all) of the casting issues detailed above.

[Diecast]

Thanks Bill for a very nice and detailed description of the development of 17d Foden Hoveringham Tipper.
Antonin

[kwakers]

The pictures and the timeline of casting changes on this 17 Tipper are way beyond anything I expected to ever be seen on this particular casting Bill, well done Lad. The narrow front axle support is a tough one to find, and this proves Stannard's illustration of it was very flawed in his 1985 Lesney Guide. His illustration proves he had never seen that first cast axle support, or that he had exagerated its tapper as a narrow triangle, not the straight support seen here in your excellent picture. Stannard shows it as a much narrower triangle when viewed from the front or rear of the Tipper. In fact, I believe that "Round" support as well pictured in your Post is slightly triangular when viewed from the side, not from the front or rear, but has not been shown or pictured anywhere as of yet. The collector who gave this seminar had to have spent years closely studying the changes on this Tipper in order to have done such a precise presentation on it.
I agree with Hugh that several changes done at once was not Lesney's usual practice, but I believe this man's research is as clear and concise as ever I have seen done on any Lesney casting. It may take us a long time to find or prove this man missed anything Hugh, I am amazed at several points both Stannard and our AIM and NAMC "Bibles" had missed (Along with thousands of serious Collectors) concerning plastic suspension support changes. Thanks Once Again Bill, Kwakers

[durangokid]

Some unlisted variations. (I have mentioned it yet).
a) without the raised centre to the front bumper
b) with the raised centre to the front bumper
Antonin

Antonin,
Thank you for this photo. In discussing this with my fellow collector who put together the detailed subject narration, neither one of us have ever seen the white spring model without the raised centre to the front bumper!
Would you be so kind as to post additional photos of this model that show all of the base and under-carriage and any thoughts about it that you might have??
Thank you,
Bill

[nearlymint]

A superb discussion on this model, in my notes I have the second type casting without raised centre and with the white spring but my one is playworn. I will need to dig these out and check.
Jason

[nearlymint]

Hi Bill,
Thanks to your pictures I know have a model I have wanted for years, tipper with the round brace under the first axle.

17

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I will still need to dig out my others as my notes show I have casting 2 and 3 with white springs but I have not noted the bumper for both models.
J