Time line question regarding tires on hubs M5, 72a & 50b

[Tinman]

It's always been my understanding that a Fordson tractor with gray plastic front wheels (wheels, not hub & tire) and with 22 x 24 gray rear tires ... has rear tires switched from a John Deere tractor. So that got me thinking about the time line. Did the 22 x 24 tire first appear with the introduction of the John Deere?

The hubs/tires were shared with the M5 combine, which was introduced the same time as the Fordson. I've always assumed the switch over of the small plastic wheels to hubs, on both models (M5 & 72a), happened at nearly the same time.

So, to clarify my question: Which came first, the 22 x 24 tire or the John Deere tractor?

[Tinman]

My thoughts are, the M5 combine and the 72a Fordson tractor are the pioneer models for the plastic hubs which would come into common use later (with the M5 being the true pioneer). The 72a and the M5 share these hubs and tires up until the John Deere tractor came into production. With the introduction of the John Deere tractor, a 3rd model now shared the common hubs and tires.

There is no listed variations for the John Deere tractor, so the use of orange hubs on a J.D. could likely be from the early point in production while the 72a Fordson was still being made.

Specific tire treads are important during the brief time that the Fordson and the John Deere production overlapped. Did the rear tire tread change from the higher count gray to the smaller count angled tread some time during this overlap or did the tread change prior to the introduction of the John Deere?

The only thing that's fairly certain is that the early block tread (higher thread count tire) never made the transition from gray to black.

Do I need to include pictures to make this thread more interesting?

[mbox2000]

Pm sent

[Tinman]

I've been getting some good answers to my research from sources/individuals off the board. It looks like the 22 x 24 rear tractor tires were designed for the 50b John Deere tractor and intended to be kept separate for that model.

The 22 x 30 rear tires remained in production until the end of the 72a and the M5 combine. They never made made a transition from gray to black as black tires were produced side by side (from day 1) for use on the M5 and didn't find their way onto the 72a until gray tires were phased out in favor of one color (black) for both models.

The angled tread 22 x 24 tires designed specifically for the 50b John Deere made a transition from gray to black. The best guess is that this happened around the same time as the gray plastic was dumped in favor of a black plastic tire for both M5 and 72a. This undoubtedly was a cost saving measure and I'm surprised the two colors of the 22 x 30 tires were kept separate as long as they were. The logic behind the assumption of the color change happening at the same time is that once the 50b went from gray to black tires, the 72a could no longer share a front tire with the 50b (& 51 trailer) so the black 22 x 30 would now be the only color produced and both the 50b & 72a would transition from gray to black tires.

When the combine and the 72a ceased production at the 65 to 66 model change over, the tires and hubs would continue on until the end finding uses on many other models both in the 1-75 range and Kings (although the rear tire and rim seems to have become obsolete with the end of the John Deere).

Because the tires are so easy to switch from model to model, it is nearly impossible to determine if any of the main models using these hubs and tires (M5, 50b & 72a) ever came with a color or tread that was not normally intended for that model. Attempting to catalog different tire treads and different tire colors has to rely on the time line coinciding with the introduction of the 22 x 24 tire intended for the John Deere. Any 22 x 24 tire found on an M5 or 72a prior to that point would be an owner performed tire switch.

One single question remains in my mind. Did the 6mm plastic hub (later used on the M5 rear & 72a front) precede the 50b and find use on the M5 & 72a or was that hub introduced along with the 50b (the latter seems far more likely).

I would sincerely appreciate input on this topic from anyone else.

[mbox2000]

Wow Joe, all of that made my brain hurt. Must be late, too much whiskey. I know that tires are now easily swapped from hub to hub, but how hard was the swap 30 years ago and was there a reason to do that back then. I still have to pull out my tractors and compare. I think the M5 is the only MP that I don't have so can't check that. Will have to count on pics for that.

Jay

[matchbox_n_molars]

JP, I do think some photographs folded into your narrative would help me make better sense of all this. I've seen discussion regarding these models and the colors of the plastic hubs: Fordson tractors with yellow John Deere hubs and even occasional John Deere tractors and/or trailers with orange or even red hubs (trailer). But I don't think I've ever even taken a moment to fold the M5 combine into the mix or to focus so specifically on the differences and timelines surrounding the tires themselves. I'm like Jay, a little overwhelmed.

[matchbox_n_molars]

If it helps at all, I've got three M5 combines here at the dental office (see what I can do when a patient blows off an appointment).
An example with silver hubs on the front and solid BPW on the rear. This model has the 22x30 tires on front
An example with yellow hubs both front and rear with 22x24 tires on front
An example with orange hubs both front and rear also with 22x24 tires on front.
And again, if you want photos I could do that later.

My regular wheels are at the house so I can't check those right now.

[Tinman]

My problem is that I have no or too few examples
I've the following:
One combine: Orange hubs on front with black 22x30 tires and black plastic wheels on rear.
Two Fordson tractors: One has orange hubs front and rear with no tires. The other has black plastic wheels front & orange hubs with black 22x30 tires on rear.
Five John Deere tractors with no tires on front or rear. I don't have any examples of the John Deere 22x24 tire to photograph (not in black or gray).

[Brad Pittiful]

this is way out of my realm of knowledge

[matchbox_n_molars]

Both my gray wheeled and black wheeled John Deere tractors have the newer 22x24 tires.
I have five examples of the Fordson tractors. The two tractors with solid disc front wheels (no central hubs), have the older 22x20 tires on the rear wheels. One of these has GPW and one has BPW.
Of the three Fordsons I have with orange hubs on the front, all have 22x24 tires on the rear whether black or gray plastic.
I hope all that makes sense. If we need photos I can take some at some point.

So it seems that the 22x30 rear tires were used on earlier models. Based on my small sample of M5 combines and Fordson tractors it would seem that the transition to the 22x24 tires must have occurred about the same time that they started putting hubs on the rear wheels of the M5 combines and hubs on the front of the Fordson tractors.